veronica87's review against another edition
4.0
I read this eight years ago and just finished a re-read. Yep, rating still stands. This book is like a shot of adrenaline that manages to still deliver a cool, yet thought provoking, concept.
I read this book simply to fulfill a reading challenge requirement for one of the Goodreads groups to which I belong. Needless to say, I had zero expectations going in and found myself pretty quickly engrossed in the plot. I'm not even sure quite how to classify this book as it is, in my estimation, equal parts fantasy and science fiction. It's set on Earth albeit many, many, many years in the future when society has evolved (or devolved, depending on the POV) into a caste system and the ideas of Abraham Lincoln, John Locke, John Kennedy and others of their ilk are considered grounds for sedition. But it's also set on Overworld, a kingdom closer to a medieval level society that's polpulated by humans and "subs", the substandard species like elves, dwarves, ogres, etc. It's a high octane, action-adventure tale full of violence and greed that nevertheless speaks to the deeper issues of self-identity, what it means to be truly free, and what sorts of evils can arise when society is only willing to consider its own desires. It's a mash-up of The Running Man, The Warriors, Escape From New York, The Truman Show, reality TV, and any sword and sorcery movie you can name. And if all of that sounds crazy that's because it is...and yet, it works. It's an example of old school writing where information and meaning has to be gleaned from the context as there is no spoon feeding done here. But if you pay attention, you'll be rewarded with a fascinating concept and larger than life characters who nevertheless play to motivations that anyone can relate to and recognize. My only quibble? I'm not sure the book needed the epilogue.
I read this book simply to fulfill a reading challenge requirement for one of the Goodreads groups to which I belong. Needless to say, I had zero expectations going in and found myself pretty quickly engrossed in the plot. I'm not even sure quite how to classify this book as it is, in my estimation, equal parts fantasy and science fiction. It's set on Earth albeit many, many, many years in the future when society has evolved (or devolved, depending on the POV) into a caste system and the ideas of Abraham Lincoln, John Locke, John Kennedy and others of their ilk are considered grounds for sedition. But it's also set on Overworld, a kingdom closer to a medieval level society that's polpulated by humans and "subs", the substandard species like elves, dwarves, ogres, etc. It's a high octane, action-adventure tale full of violence and greed that nevertheless speaks to the deeper issues of self-identity, what it means to be truly free, and what sorts of evils can arise when society is only willing to consider its own desires. It's a mash-up of The Running Man, The Warriors, Escape From New York, The Truman Show, reality TV, and any sword and sorcery movie you can name. And if all of that sounds crazy that's because it is...and yet, it works. It's an example of old school writing where information and meaning has to be gleaned from the context as there is no spoon feeding done here. But if you pay attention, you'll be rewarded with a fascinating concept and larger than life characters who nevertheless play to motivations that anyone can relate to and recognize. My only quibble? I'm not sure the book needed the epilogue.
aquaphase's review against another edition
3.0
For many years this book has been put in front of me as a “You loved ‘X,’ have you read Heroes Die?” In typical me fashion, I avoided it because there was just an aspect to this book that didn’t appeal to me. This past month, I sucked it up and forced myself to overlook the things that seemed “annoying” about this book and just motor through it.
Heroes Die is the story of the renowned killer of many things in the land of Ankhana: Caine. Caine is a swashbuckling anti-hero who is best known for pretty much destroying the line of succession in Ankhana and sending the land into political chaos.
In reality, Caine is Hari Michaelson from Earth and a mega-superstar who draws massive audiences to his wild adventures via experience-share technology and broadcasts streamed from the unknowing parallel Overworld.
In this story, Hari/Caine must go into Overworld to rescue his estranged wife Shanna/Pallas Rill. Pallas Rill has gone somewhat off-grid in Ankhana (a very very bad thing), and Caine, trying to get her back in his life, dives into the mystery with violent zeal.
Arching over all of the swordplay is the weird meta-story of what is going on in the “real” world. In a 1984 meets Brave New World, society is ruled by a very strict caste system, and there is a whole heap of drama that Hari/Caine has generated/discovered, and this plays out in tandem with what is going on in Overworld.
For me, this book was a very slow starter. I almost put it aside twice while grinding into it just from lack of anything in the story that really grabbed me.
Once I started to see where the story intended to go, I became far more engaged, but I feel like entire storylines, such as Berne’s, could have been vastly shortened or even eliminated. Yes, Ma’elKoth is a ruthless and super-powerful Emperor, but do we really care about his Master Work, or is it even really relevant to how things eventually play out?
I will Give Mr. Stover this: he’s pretty masterful at world-building. I have enjoyed his Star Wars novels in the past, so I was prepared for his style of writing and how his visualizations are.
Will I read the other Acts of Caine novels? At this point, I’m just not sure.
Heroes Die is the story of the renowned killer of many things in the land of Ankhana: Caine. Caine is a swashbuckling anti-hero who is best known for pretty much destroying the line of succession in Ankhana and sending the land into political chaos.
In reality, Caine is Hari Michaelson from Earth and a mega-superstar who draws massive audiences to his wild adventures via experience-share technology and broadcasts streamed from the unknowing parallel Overworld.
In this story, Hari/Caine must go into Overworld to rescue his estranged wife Shanna/Pallas Rill. Pallas Rill has gone somewhat off-grid in Ankhana (a very very bad thing), and Caine, trying to get her back in his life, dives into the mystery with violent zeal.
Arching over all of the swordplay is the weird meta-story of what is going on in the “real” world. In a 1984 meets Brave New World, society is ruled by a very strict caste system, and there is a whole heap of drama that Hari/Caine has generated/discovered, and this plays out in tandem with what is going on in Overworld.
For me, this book was a very slow starter. I almost put it aside twice while grinding into it just from lack of anything in the story that really grabbed me.
Once I started to see where the story intended to go, I became far more engaged, but I feel like entire storylines, such as Berne’s, could have been vastly shortened or even eliminated. Yes, Ma’elKoth is a ruthless and super-powerful Emperor, but do we really care about his Master Work, or is it even really relevant to how things eventually play out?
I will Give Mr. Stover this: he’s pretty masterful at world-building. I have enjoyed his Star Wars novels in the past, so I was prepared for his style of writing and how his visualizations are.
Will I read the other Acts of Caine novels? At this point, I’m just not sure.
isabellarobinson7's review against another edition
4.0
Rating: 4 stars
I read this book at the recommendation of a Goodreads friend who said it was one of his favourites. I can see why. This book was doing what many fantasy/sci fi books try to do today, and it did it almost 25 years ago.
Some plot/character stuff: I really liked the way character motivations and limits were handled. It always felt like our characters were in danger, but they perhaps had the means of surviving if they pushed harder. I was worried there that it might become the “wife in the fridge” trope but I don’t think it did. Can’t say how or why because of spoilers but I don’t think so.
It was kind of weird with all the cussing in a Tolkien-era fantasy. I suppose it adds to the idea that these dudes are from future earth, and this is as much a sci fi as a fantasy, but it is just weird. I’m not being a prude and going "I don’t want any bad words anywhere! How dare they say that! I am reporting this book! It should be banned forever!!!!!" but it was just strange and at points over the top. Sometimes it gets to the point where it’s like how edgy can we make this dialogue? There was this line that I heard in the audio and just had to find in my ebook copy (audio people know) that was as follows (a direct quote): "Lord, my aching balls! I love being me!" I snorted so hard reading that I almost pulled my brain out of my nostrils. (Said Goodreads friend already knows my feeling about this sentence.) And not only because of this man’s giant ego. His word choice is questionable to say the least.
A Side Quest: Isabella Attempts To Determine Whether Heroes Die Is Science Fiction Or Fantasy
(mostly through roundabout ways such as public opinion, bookstores and intensive Googling)
That leads on to my next point - is Heroes Die a sci fi or a fantasy? Both… but which one is it more? The cover SCREAMS 90’s fantasy, but technically the "real" world in this book is future Earth, so does that make it more sci fi...?
Goodreads readers have rather convincingly decided it is more fantasy than science fiction, with 1,033 people shelving it as fantasy, and only 259 doing so as science fiction (well, that is not accounting for people who have shelved it as both, and also technically the sci fi number is higher, because as well as the 259 people placing this book in a shelf titled "science-fiction", a further 190 people shelved it under one called "sci-fi" and another 50 in a shelf called "scifi" and again- ok we are just going to stop this nonsense now. It's a lot. Numbers, maths, addition... it's inconclusive. You get the gist.) It isn't really that much of a problem on the Goodreads side of things, because I can just put it under both shelves, but what about my giant reading spreadsheet where I seperate the two genres and allocate one or the other to each book? I must go in search of other sources!
Wikipedia takes the easy route out saying "Heroes Die is a science fantasy novel by American writer Matthew Stover" and I am tempted to abuse my Wikipedia user powers and change it into some kind of conundrum of paragraphs like the ones I am constructing now, but then I will probably get my editing privileges revoked and I don't want that. More sources!
Audible, Kobo and Apple Books are no use because they just shove it in a category titled "Science Fiction & Fantasy" so those guys are out. Google Books just lists a whole bunch of genres: "Fantasy Fiction, Science fiction, High fantasy, Adventure fiction, Dystopian Fiction" though it is interesting that they list fantasy before sci fi, but you would think that was just a matter of alphabetising the list, but as you can see, it is not (this is also what comes up if you chuck "what genre is heroes die" into Google). Amazon has its bestseller rank in three categories: #4,358 in Post-Apocalyptic Science Fiction; #5,677 in Fantasy Action & Adventure; #9,398 in Epic Fantasy. Interesting how it is higher up in sci fi than either of the fantasies (also I would argue that if anything it is portal fantasy, not epic fantasy). My quest continues!
And then... we come back to the cover - "Heroes Die: A Fantasy Novel". That should solve it, right? NOPE. I blame this on the marketing team who saw what was popping off in book circles at the time and replicated it.
A Conclusion
So my well of resources is dry. I have no answer, just more questions. Like "was this needed?" Well I have an answer to that: a big fat NO. "Am I overthinking things?" Yes. 10000% yes, you are Isabella. "Should I shut up now?" Oh, most definitely.
I read this book at the recommendation of a Goodreads friend who said it was one of his favourites. I can see why. This book was doing what many fantasy/sci fi books try to do today, and it did it almost 25 years ago.
Some plot/character stuff: I really liked the way character motivations and limits were handled. It always felt like our characters were in danger, but they perhaps had the means of surviving if they pushed harder. I was worried there that it might become the “wife in the fridge” trope but I don’t think it did. Can’t say how or why because of spoilers but I don’t think so.
It was kind of weird with all the cussing in a Tolkien-era fantasy. I suppose it adds to the idea that these dudes are from future earth, and this is as much a sci fi as a fantasy, but it is just weird. I’m not being a prude and going "I don’t want any bad words anywhere! How dare they say that! I am reporting this book! It should be banned forever!!!!!" but it was just strange and at points over the top. Sometimes it gets to the point where it’s like how edgy can we make this dialogue? There was this line that I heard in the audio and just had to find in my ebook copy (audio people know) that was as follows (a direct quote): "Lord, my aching balls! I love being me!" I snorted so hard reading that I almost pulled my brain out of my nostrils. (Said Goodreads friend already knows my feeling about this sentence.) And not only because of this man’s giant ego. His word choice is questionable to say the least.
A Side Quest: Isabella Attempts To Determine Whether Heroes Die Is Science Fiction Or Fantasy
(mostly through roundabout ways such as public opinion, bookstores and intensive Googling)
That leads on to my next point - is Heroes Die a sci fi or a fantasy? Both… but which one is it more? The cover SCREAMS 90’s fantasy, but technically the "real" world in this book is future Earth, so does that make it more sci fi...?
Goodreads readers have rather convincingly decided it is more fantasy than science fiction, with 1,033 people shelving it as fantasy, and only 259 doing so as science fiction (well, that is not accounting for people who have shelved it as both, and also technically the sci fi number is higher, because as well as the 259 people placing this book in a shelf titled "science-fiction", a further 190 people shelved it under one called "sci-fi" and another 50 in a shelf called "scifi" and again- ok we are just going to stop this nonsense now. It's a lot. Numbers, maths, addition... it's inconclusive. You get the gist.) It isn't really that much of a problem on the Goodreads side of things, because I can just put it under both shelves, but what about my giant reading spreadsheet where I seperate the two genres and allocate one or the other to each book? I must go in search of other sources!
Wikipedia takes the easy route out saying "Heroes Die is a science fantasy novel by American writer Matthew Stover" and I am tempted to abuse my Wikipedia user powers and change it into some kind of conundrum of paragraphs like the ones I am constructing now, but then I will probably get my editing privileges revoked and I don't want that. More sources!
Audible, Kobo and Apple Books are no use because they just shove it in a category titled "Science Fiction & Fantasy" so those guys are out. Google Books just lists a whole bunch of genres: "Fantasy Fiction, Science fiction, High fantasy, Adventure fiction, Dystopian Fiction" though it is interesting that they list fantasy before sci fi, but you would think that was just a matter of alphabetising the list, but as you can see, it is not (this is also what comes up if you chuck "what genre is heroes die" into Google). Amazon has its bestseller rank in three categories: #4,358 in Post-Apocalyptic Science Fiction; #5,677 in Fantasy Action & Adventure; #9,398 in Epic Fantasy. Interesting how it is higher up in sci fi than either of the fantasies (also I would argue that if anything it is portal fantasy, not epic fantasy). My quest continues!
And then... we come back to the cover - "Heroes Die: A Fantasy Novel". That should solve it, right? NOPE. I blame this on the marketing team who saw what was popping off in book circles at the time and replicated it.
A Conclusion
So my well of resources is dry. I have no answer, just more questions. Like "was this needed?" Well I have an answer to that: a big fat NO. "Am I overthinking things?" Yes. 10000% yes, you are Isabella. "Should I shut up now?" Oh, most definitely.
thunderinstead89's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
mysterious
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.25
Somewhat a product of its time, but I can overlook that for an extremely compelling novel that focuses on lambasting society’s obsession with violence. The introspection of Caine/Hari throughout is maybe the best I’ve seen “professional killer troubled by killing” done, alongside a cast of other great and hateful characters. Ironically, the action is nearly non-stop and graphically depicted, but extremely compelling. You know Caine is going to triumph because his life is like a movie, but how he gets there and subverts the system is all of the fun of the book.
ajspackman's review against another edition
Read 40% but it didn’t hold my attention enough. It was good but i never got that “I can’t put it down” feeling
charlibirb's review against another edition
4.0
Cool world, good characters. Very gritty. Everything that could go wrong, does.
The first book concludes its own arc, so you could just read the 1st book, and forget the rest. Although I enjoyed book 2 a lot, too!
The first book concludes its own arc, so you could just read the 1st book, and forget the rest. Although I enjoyed book 2 a lot, too!
disastrouspenguin's review against another edition
4.0
Consumed as an audiobook. (I may be mis-spelling some character names as a result.)
I was really confused by the introduction to this book, but if you can hang on past the first several pages (30 minutes?), I promise things do start coming together and making sense. I recommend reading this book if you like fantasy and science fiction.
In this book Stover develops two different words - one, a sort of dystopia of our own, the second, a fantastical parallel dimension where magic is real and society less technologically advanced. People of the former have developed a system to travel to and from the latter, which is a source of much friction as the story progresses.
We meet Caine first, in the middle of a slightly maniacal adventure that lends the book its initial confusing tone. From there, the plot continues to grow, with multiple threads woven throughout the book, but in a way that doesn't feel overly complicated and confusing.
I was really confused by the introduction to this book, but if you can hang on past the first several pages (30 minutes?), I promise things do start coming together and making sense. I recommend reading this book if you like fantasy and science fiction.
In this book Stover develops two different words - one, a sort of dystopia of our own, the second, a fantastical parallel dimension where magic is real and society less technologically advanced. People of the former have developed a system to travel to and from the latter, which is a source of much friction as the story progresses.
We meet Caine first, in the middle of a slightly maniacal adventure that lends the book its initial confusing tone. From there, the plot continues to grow, with multiple threads woven throughout the book, but in a way that doesn't feel overly complicated and confusing.
thedashdude's review against another edition
5.0
A review of the whole series:
1: Heroes Die is great. The dynamic between the two worlds is great, and all the forces on Caine play off each other in great ways, and Caine himself is a great protagonist. Gritty, bloody, and very funny. This is the best book in the series. The ending is very conclusive, and the book works great standalone.
2: Blade of Tyshalle is good. Shockingly introspective, but still a violent action filled book. The competing forces around Caine are just as good as in the first book, if not better. The black goo felt out of place, and didn't sit well with me as a plot device. Not as good as the first book, but still enjoyable. The ending was so conclusive I wasn't sure how the series could continue.
3: Caine Black Knife is just okay. The flashback sections are great, but the main timeline is pretty weak. Caine doesn't have the tension around his actions that made the first two books so good, and the actual main story isn't super engaging. This book has to be read with book 4, as they are sort of two sides of the same story, with book 4 having the real ending.
4: Caine's Law is the weakest book in the series. While it was interesting trying to figure out how the scenes presented tied back into Caine Black Knife, they didn't make for an interesting story. There was no tension around Caine's actions, and even less of an actual goal. Lots of random scenes trying to justify the ending and talking about how neat horses are. The ending it does give you is not noticeably better than the one in Blade of Tyshalle. Caine is still a fun protagonist, and piecing everything together is neat, but the book isn't great.
I'd treat the first book as a standalone, and if you are interested in reading more and seeing a more fitting conclusion, read the first two as a duology. The last two should really just be read if you loved Caine as a protagonist and would read anything about him. I don't regret reading them, but I can't say I really recommend them.
1: Heroes Die is great. The dynamic between the two worlds is great, and all the forces on Caine play off each other in great ways, and Caine himself is a great protagonist. Gritty, bloody, and very funny. This is the best book in the series. The ending is very conclusive, and the book works great standalone.
2: Blade of Tyshalle is good. Shockingly introspective, but still a violent action filled book. The competing forces around Caine are just as good as in the first book, if not better. The black goo felt out of place, and didn't sit well with me as a plot device. Not as good as the first book, but still enjoyable. The ending was so conclusive I wasn't sure how the series could continue.
3: Caine Black Knife is just okay. The flashback sections are great, but the main timeline is pretty weak. Caine doesn't have the tension around his actions that made the first two books so good, and the actual main story isn't super engaging. This book has to be read with book 4, as they are sort of two sides of the same story, with book 4 having the real ending.
4: Caine's Law is the weakest book in the series. While it was interesting trying to figure out how the scenes presented tied back into Caine Black Knife, they didn't make for an interesting story. There was no tension around Caine's actions, and even less of an actual goal. Lots of random scenes trying to justify the ending and talking about how neat horses are. The ending it does give you is not noticeably better than the one in Blade of Tyshalle. Caine is still a fun protagonist, and piecing everything together is neat, but the book isn't great.
I'd treat the first book as a standalone, and if you are interested in reading more and seeing a more fitting conclusion, read the first two as a duology. The last two should really just be read if you loved Caine as a protagonist and would read anything about him. I don't regret reading them, but I can't say I really recommend them.
tcgoetz's review against another edition
4.0
Great ideas and flow. Would be a 5 if the writing were better and some inconsistencies were dealt with.