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lizziestudieshistory's review against another edition
5.0
I feel really uncomfortable rating of reviewing Marcus Aurelius' Meditations - they're so personal and not really intended for mass consumption, which is why I rated it 5 stars as a mark of respect that it isn't my business to criticise his reflections. I'm also not a fan of Stoicism, there are worse philosophies I suppose, but it's not my cup of tea...
I personally didn't find this a particularly pleasant or useful reading experience. I can see why so many have found it such a profound work to read - and I can see someone turning to is as Betteridge did in The Moonstone with Robinson Crusoe (I still haven't completely recovered...)
Had I read 1 or 2 books I may have found this insightful, if not particularly relevant to my own life outside of a few general ideas around being good and striving to be useful to those around you. However, I did find it VERY repetitive (this wasn't helped by reading the entire thing in about 6 hours) and slightly dull. I only carried on with the whole thing because I had to read it before next week and I need time to reflect on what I've read.
My main conclusions from this were:
1. We are insignificant in the grand scope of the universe and must, therefore, focus on our own lives and stop reflecting on those we hold with contempt or malice.
2. We are social beings and must not defy our natures by not being useful to the rest of society. Nothing that is beneficial to the whole is harmful to the individual, as such we must strive to useful and good to those around us without baring each other ill will.
3. We will all die soon, whether that is in a few days, or a few years is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Our lives as thinking, rational, and productive beings are short - we shouldn't waste that time working for selfish and meaningless fame.
4. We should avoid excess and pleasures that removes or goes against our reason. Everything must be done in moderation.
5. Only correct the behaviour of others when you can do so with good will, civility, and patience. Be kind to everyone, even those you find infuriating and tiresome.
I personally didn't find this a particularly pleasant or useful reading experience. I can see why so many have found it such a profound work to read - and I can see someone turning to is as Betteridge did in The Moonstone with Robinson Crusoe (I still haven't completely recovered...)
Had I read 1 or 2 books I may have found this insightful, if not particularly relevant to my own life outside of a few general ideas around being good and striving to be useful to those around you. However, I did find it VERY repetitive (this wasn't helped by reading the entire thing in about 6 hours) and slightly dull. I only carried on with the whole thing because I had to read it before next week and I need time to reflect on what I've read.
My main conclusions from this were:
1. We are insignificant in the grand scope of the universe and must, therefore, focus on our own lives and stop reflecting on those we hold with contempt or malice.
2. We are social beings and must not defy our natures by not being useful to the rest of society. Nothing that is beneficial to the whole is harmful to the individual, as such we must strive to useful and good to those around us without baring each other ill will.
3. We will all die soon, whether that is in a few days, or a few years is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Our lives as thinking, rational, and productive beings are short - we shouldn't waste that time working for selfish and meaningless fame.
4. We should avoid excess and pleasures that removes or goes against our reason. Everything must be done in moderation.
5. Only correct the behaviour of others when you can do so with good will, civility, and patience. Be kind to everyone, even those you find infuriating and tiresome.
thecrookedspine's review against another edition
inspiring
reflective
tense
slow-paced
2.0
I liked the actual translation of this book - it was easy to read and had a clear and consistent voice to it. I also appreciate that the translator is clearly extremely educated in things Hellenic and Roman, which made some of his commentary possible and deepened a few of my understandings.
But here’s my chunky beef: I’d say that I found about 1/3 of the footnotes relevant and justified (see below for the other 2/3rds) and about half of that third taught me something - the first time he said it. But there’s as much footnote as book, so that’s a lot of “the rest of it” to wade through. I frequently felt like I was trying to listen to someone speak while someone else interjected, frequently with their own derogatory views of the original speaker or the thoughts that person was expressing (Marcus is a grumpy old man/This is a ridiculous framing of an argument and Marcus is wrong, etc…). And for that reason alone, frankly I regret reading this version as my first read through.
For the other 2/3rds of of footnotes, I found them irrelevant or unjustified for these reasons: They were excessively repetitive (to be fair he explains that this is mostly intentional for people who choose to pick up and put down the book rather than read straight through as I did), drawing the reader into repeat showings of things which weren’t worth seeing the first time. As an example, I’m cobbling these specifics together, but I promise it’s representational: Marcus would say, Why bother about death, it’s just the shedding of a carcass, or something like that, and then there would be a footnote to this saying, Marcus talks a lot about this. Thanks translator guy? Then that footnote gets repeated in fifty variations every time Marcus talks about death, which, spoiler, is constantly.
There were also footnotes where I felt the translator was really going a little too far, like one where he says something about how Marcus thinks people are horrible in very strong terms that Marcus himself never says in the book. Clearly the translator is inferring this from the difficulty Marcus had in dealing with people, but I really felt it had no place, considering he’s meant to translate the words that did come out of Marcus’ mouth, not put words into them.
Still, I gave this 2 stars because it’s clear that one only sees the tip of the iceberg of work that goes into a book like this, and I’m aware of how much education was required for this book to be made possible. But I feel this translator failed to respect the relationship the reader themselves is trying to forge with Marcus Aurelius and his thoughts, and stepped outside of translation and into interpretation, which I see as a grave error. In the end I did learn some things that were interesting, but none of them were pivotal to understanding The Meditations, so I would say that if you don’t want to deal with these footnotes you don’t have to.
And yes, The Meditations themselves are worth reading if you’re interested in general philosophy, history, self-improvement, or especially in stoicism. They are a private journal, and so are repetitive, and occasionally opaque as to their reference but this is fairly rare. It’s not a hard read and it’s worth the time.
But here’s my chunky beef: I’d say that I found about 1/3 of the footnotes relevant and justified (see below for the other 2/3rds) and about half of that third taught me something - the first time he said it. But there’s as much footnote as book, so that’s a lot of “the rest of it” to wade through. I frequently felt like I was trying to listen to someone speak while someone else interjected, frequently with their own derogatory views of the original speaker or the thoughts that person was expressing (Marcus is a grumpy old man/This is a ridiculous framing of an argument and Marcus is wrong, etc…). And for that reason alone, frankly I regret reading this version as my first read through.
For the other 2/3rds of of footnotes, I found them irrelevant or unjustified for these reasons: They were excessively repetitive (to be fair he explains that this is mostly intentional for people who choose to pick up and put down the book rather than read straight through as I did), drawing the reader into repeat showings of things which weren’t worth seeing the first time. As an example, I’m cobbling these specifics together, but I promise it’s representational: Marcus would say, Why bother about death, it’s just the shedding of a carcass, or something like that, and then there would be a footnote to this saying, Marcus talks a lot about this. Thanks translator guy? Then that footnote gets repeated in fifty variations every time Marcus talks about death, which, spoiler, is constantly.
There were also footnotes where I felt the translator was really going a little too far, like one where he says something about how Marcus thinks people are horrible in very strong terms that Marcus himself never says in the book. Clearly the translator is inferring this from the difficulty Marcus had in dealing with people, but I really felt it had no place, considering he’s meant to translate the words that did come out of Marcus’ mouth, not put words into them.
Still, I gave this 2 stars because it’s clear that one only sees the tip of the iceberg of work that goes into a book like this, and I’m aware of how much education was required for this book to be made possible. But I feel this translator failed to respect the relationship the reader themselves is trying to forge with Marcus Aurelius and his thoughts, and stepped outside of translation and into interpretation, which I see as a grave error. In the end I did learn some things that were interesting, but none of them were pivotal to understanding The Meditations, so I would say that if you don’t want to deal with these footnotes you don’t have to.
And yes, The Meditations themselves are worth reading if you’re interested in general philosophy, history, self-improvement, or especially in stoicism. They are a private journal, and so are repetitive, and occasionally opaque as to their reference but this is fairly rare. It’s not a hard read and it’s worth the time.
anteus7's review against another edition
5.0
I don't think that I ever read Aurelius's Meditations cover to cover before, but I'm glad that I did this time around. A friend lent his copy to me, which was quite nice as I got to see which passages he highlighted and took notes on. I think that is an underrated way to get to know someone better, by reading their annotations on a work that is important to them. I think I'll add that to my bag of tricks. "Hi new friend, here's my annotated copy of Catch-22. Have fun!" Yeah, that'll work.
Reading this book cover to cover is a much different proposition than reading a meditation here or there or one selected by someone with a point they are trying to make. They are thematically linked per section, but they don't necessarily flow one to the other with any kind of clear tie between one preceding or following another. Still, as nuggets of wisdom go, they are to the point and accessible, and highly quotable!
Reading this book cover to cover is a much different proposition than reading a meditation here or there or one selected by someone with a point they are trying to make. They are thematically linked per section, but they don't necessarily flow one to the other with any kind of clear tie between one preceding or following another. Still, as nuggets of wisdom go, they are to the point and accessible, and highly quotable!
dovefromabove's review against another edition
5.0
I love the translation. Keeps it nice and simple. And I am fascinated by the ancient philosophers understanding of the human condition of which seemingly is as relevant today, 2000 years later than it was then.
Variations of the lessons from this journal are found in many modern self help books and spiritual and religious texts from years gone by. My memorable quote is on nature (I can't recall the full section) - "All things are born from you, exist within you and return to you" - I'm looking forward to reading and learning more about ancient philosophy!
Variations of the lessons from this journal are found in many modern self help books and spiritual and religious texts from years gone by. My memorable quote is on nature (I can't recall the full section) - "All things are born from you, exist within you and return to you" - I'm looking forward to reading and learning more about ancient philosophy!
thetortureofvinther's review against another edition
informative
inspiring
reflective
medium-paced
5.0
rekiyomi's review against another edition
Might pick it back later on. On my waitlsit for now!