resowonance's review against another edition
5.0
Hesiod - Theogony: 5/5
Hesiod - Works and Days: 3/5
Theognis - Elegies: 5/5.
I really enjoyed this, I highlighted quite a lot of passages from both Hesiod and Theognis. Elegies took me a while to get into, but I was very surprised by the end!! I enjoyed the subtle gay-ness, the mentioning of Theognis's (or at least whoever the narrator's) love of men. Though I suppose it could be more of a theoretical love rather than something that's physical. I know that being gay in Greece was considered normal and acceptable (unless you were in Sparta), but I was surprised to see it mentioned in poetry like this. I would absolutely read more from both Theognis and Hesiod again!
Hesiod - Works and Days: 3/5
Theognis - Elegies: 5/5.
I really enjoyed this, I highlighted quite a lot of passages from both Hesiod and Theognis. Elegies took me a while to get into, but I was very surprised by the end!! I enjoyed the subtle gay-ness, the mentioning of Theognis's (or at least whoever the narrator's) love of men. Though I suppose it could be more of a theoretical love rather than something that's physical. I know that being gay in Greece was considered normal and acceptable (unless you were in Sparta), but I was surprised to see it mentioned in poetry like this. I would absolutely read more from both Theognis and Hesiod again!
zb1113's review against another edition
2.0
Some interesting stories and parables in the Theogony and Works, but the Elegies don't have much meat on the bone for me. Not much metaphor and riddled with contradictory platitude.
dreamsofabsurdism's review against another edition
challenging
informative
inspiring
medium-paced
3.0
donosti's review against another edition
5.0
Uno de los mejores libros para iniciar los caminos de la mitología griega. Hesíodo en esta obra presenta no solo una Teogonía del mundo mitológico, sino que también una Cosmogonía. Aunque quizás no se abordan las definiciones de cada dios helénico, si son mencionados una gran cantidad de ellos. También son narrados los acontecimientos de las generaciones previas a los Olímpicos.
No se debe perder te perspectiva que la mitología griega no es un sistema uniforme, su evolución y la de sus personajes están sujetas al filosofo y las fuentes que se consulten. Al leer una traducción al español hay que tener presente las traducciones de los personajes femeninos y las vocales [e] y [a] Por ejemplos (Aglaye y Aglaya, Tea o Tía, Mnemosine o Mnemosina).
No se debe perder te perspectiva que la mitología griega no es un sistema uniforme, su evolución y la de sus personajes están sujetas al filosofo y las fuentes que se consulten. Al leer una traducción al español hay que tener presente las traducciones de los personajes femeninos y las vocales [e] y [a] Por ejemplos (Aglaye y Aglaya, Tea o Tía, Mnemosine o Mnemosina).
pinoncoffee's review against another edition
5.0
I read only the Theognis half of the book this time. He’s an earlier Greek writer, an exiled Megaran aristocrat from the 550s or so (though it’s debatable), and OH MY WORD he’s a character. His “elegies” are sort of punchy wisdom literature, like Psalms or Proverbs in the Bible, and it’s shocking, because at one moment he’ll be all,
Kurnos, there’s nothing better for a man
Than parents who love and keep the holy law.
And,
It’s better to be poor and good
Than rich and crooked, if you have to choose.
But then he starts railing against Poverty (“that slut”), old age, lower-class trash, unreliable friends, and ungrateful boy lovers. His boy problems took several pages actually. Exciting times. He also has a lot of drinking songs and some riddle poems.
I read his section lamenting how the wicked prosper and then went to a Sunday school class on Psalm 73, the one lamenting how the wicked prosper, and was like—the author of the Psalms was entering into the conversation of the era! Asaph was not just writing into a void!
Theognis is absolutely worth reading to get into the head of an ancient Greek.
Kurnos, there’s nothing better for a man
Than parents who love and keep the holy law.
And,
It’s better to be poor and good
Than rich and crooked, if you have to choose.
But then he starts railing against Poverty (“that slut”), old age, lower-class trash, unreliable friends, and ungrateful boy lovers. His boy problems took several pages actually. Exciting times. He also has a lot of drinking songs and some riddle poems.
I read his section lamenting how the wicked prosper and then went to a Sunday school class on Psalm 73, the one lamenting how the wicked prosper, and was like—the author of the Psalms was entering into the conversation of the era! Asaph was not just writing into a void!
Theognis is absolutely worth reading to get into the head of an ancient Greek.
djasson's review against another edition
5.0
Classicist Dorothea Wender’s translation of Hesiod is spectacular. Even while she says his
“Theogony” is a bit boring and not written in the wonderful style of “Works and Days”, I think her talent as a translator makes this piece on a creation myth shine. Now, I’m a huge fan of mythology and the origins of various beings, so I would have liked the Theogony no matter what. But, Wender used her skill to make it enjoyable and not simply a seemingly unending onslaught of names.
When she turns her eye to Hesiod’s “Works and Days,” she is magnificent. Just reading the first stanza, I can immediately tell that this is a much stronger piece of poetry, as Wender stated in her introduction. Hesiod stressed the need to be prepared and work hard. I enjoyed his description of the five ages of man: Golden, Silver, Bronze, the demi-gods, and Iron (us). The demi-gods were the race of heroes who have great epics and stories written about them, including those who fought in the Trojan War.
Hesiod offers advice and guidance throughout. He sagely writes: “But he who neither thinks himself nor learns / From others, is a failure as a man” (p. 68, lines 96-97). Valid then, even more valid in our present times. His advice on farming is tied to astronomy, so that one can tell when to plant, harvest, etc. based on which planets and constellations are rising or setting, visible or not, in the sky. He tells sailors when to avoid voyages, saying “Gales of all winds rage when the Pleiades, / Pursued by violent Orion, plunge / Into the clouded sea” (p. 78, lines 619-621). He marries my love of astronomy and mythology with tidbits like this.
Turning to Theognis, I could have done without him. I didn’t like what he had to say, and it had nothing to do with the translation. To quote from Wender’s introduction to his Elegies, “Unfortunately, as his personality is revealed in the poems, Theognis is not at all likeable. He seems to have been a savage, paranoid, bigoted, bitter, narrow, pompous, self-pitying person” (p. 92). I cannot help but agree with her.
Wender’s notes were wonderful and illuminating. I know she probably upset some stodgy white male classicists sitting in their cloistered rooms with her tone, but her skill and passion as a translator brought life to these words without changing the meaning of the original text. I enjoyed reading her comments, alternate translations and understandings about the text.
Overall, I’d give the Hesiod a 5, the content (not the translation) of Theognis’s Elegies a 1, the Notes a 5 and to Dorothea Wender, a 5+. Well done and well worth my time.
“Theogony” is a bit boring and not written in the wonderful style of “Works and Days”, I think her talent as a translator makes this piece on a creation myth shine. Now, I’m a huge fan of mythology and the origins of various beings, so I would have liked the Theogony no matter what. But, Wender used her skill to make it enjoyable and not simply a seemingly unending onslaught of names.
When she turns her eye to Hesiod’s “Works and Days,” she is magnificent. Just reading the first stanza, I can immediately tell that this is a much stronger piece of poetry, as Wender stated in her introduction. Hesiod stressed the need to be prepared and work hard. I enjoyed his description of the five ages of man: Golden, Silver, Bronze, the demi-gods, and Iron (us). The demi-gods were the race of heroes who have great epics and stories written about them, including those who fought in the Trojan War.
Hesiod offers advice and guidance throughout. He sagely writes: “But he who neither thinks himself nor learns / From others, is a failure as a man” (p. 68, lines 96-97). Valid then, even more valid in our present times. His advice on farming is tied to astronomy, so that one can tell when to plant, harvest, etc. based on which planets and constellations are rising or setting, visible or not, in the sky. He tells sailors when to avoid voyages, saying “Gales of all winds rage when the Pleiades, / Pursued by violent Orion, plunge / Into the clouded sea” (p. 78, lines 619-621). He marries my love of astronomy and mythology with tidbits like this.
Turning to Theognis, I could have done without him. I didn’t like what he had to say, and it had nothing to do with the translation. To quote from Wender’s introduction to his Elegies, “Unfortunately, as his personality is revealed in the poems, Theognis is not at all likeable. He seems to have been a savage, paranoid, bigoted, bitter, narrow, pompous, self-pitying person” (p. 92). I cannot help but agree with her.
Wender’s notes were wonderful and illuminating. I know she probably upset some stodgy white male classicists sitting in their cloistered rooms with her tone, but her skill and passion as a translator brought life to these words without changing the meaning of the original text. I enjoyed reading her comments, alternate translations and understandings about the text.
Overall, I’d give the Hesiod a 5, the content (not the translation) of Theognis’s Elegies a 1, the Notes a 5 and to Dorothea Wender, a 5+. Well done and well worth my time.
littleblackduckbooks's review against another edition
LOVED: Theogony
DID NOT LOVE: Works and Days
KIND OF LOVED: Elegies
DID NOT LOVE: Works and Days
KIND OF LOVED: Elegies
notwellread's review against another edition
2.0
This would average to a 2.5 overall.
Although Hesiod was given a similar status to Homer in Greek society, it seems pretty clear that they are not really on the same level, whichever of the two poems of either you compare. At first, confusingly, I thought the introduction was trying to claim that the Theogony and Works and Days were written by two different people (which is entirely plausible, and the introduction does at least bring this up and discuss it), hence the dual authorship in the title, but instead they’ve included a lesser-known work, Theognis’ Elegies, in this edition. I’m not sure why the decision was made to pair Hesiod and Theognis together like this, but I’m at least glad to have read them both now, albeit for very different reasons.
Theogony ★★☆ (I considered giving this three stars, but it was really more of a 2½.)
As the title might suggest, this poem concerns the creation of the universe and how the theological Greek canon of gods as we know it came to be. In the introduction: “The Theogony was such a strain to translate; I kept having to check an impulse to improve it a little, on nearly every page. It was wonderful, exciting material…but the writer had managed to make so much of it tedious.” This didn’t exactly give me high hopes for reading the text itself, but I found some value in it nonetheless. It is obviously impressive to see so many different aspects of Greek mythology drawn together for an origin story, and the absence of mankind is an interesting detail, and may suggest that we are not, in fact, front and centre in existence, and the poem (and general Greek mentality) seems to attest to this as well.
I would agree with the introduction that it has a skewed sense of proportion (dramatic episodes given too little weight and more minor details too much), but for me the mediocre style didn’t tarnish the content enough to detract from my enjoyment, whereas in the Works and Days the style wasn’t enough to make up for it. I might feel differently reading them in Greek, but in English the divide is not that wide for me. Since the Greeks had no real definitive holy book a text like this might give some idea of where they were actually getting their mythological canon from outside of the less-definitive folklore passed down, but in terms of its actual merits as a piece of poetry it is nothing particularly special.
Works and Days ★
This poem is more of a didactic type, and like a lot of didactic poetry attempts to take a mundane subject (in this case, farming and moral instruction) and use poetic skill to make it seem fit for artistic focus, even when it really isn’t. In contrast to the Theogony, “The Works and Days was a pleasure to work on, and full of surprises…And this was the poem I had dreaded, expecting dull moralizing and a farmer’s almanac.” Perhaps the writing is more fluent in this work, but that was not enough to make up for the dismal subject matter and extremely annoying authorial tone (to be fair, there are other ancient works that are well written with plain subject matter that are very valuable, but I don’t find this to be one of them because I don’t think the writing ‘makes up for’ the content here). Obviously, I don’t agree with the translator. It seems like its main value is as a historical and cultural curiosity, and not really worth reading aside from that.
The style, as the translator promised, is fairly good, and admittedly better than the Theogony but was not anything particularly special in the end and the text could not save itself on this merit alone – and I do wish the translator wouldn’t try and make the verses rhyme (!) since this sometimes lends to meandering away from the accuracy of the translation, and (at least for me) doesn’t increase enjoyment of the verse in English. It baffles me that people have ever felt it appropriate to compare Hesiod with Homer.
Also, misogyny kills. (Seriously, I can’t be expected to like a work in which this comes across quite as strongly as it does here, because who could possibly enjoy having abuse hurled at them and their kind? The Theogony has misogyny as well, but it is for the most part confined to one myth (and at least the goddesses are portrayed favourably, which seems a bit like cognitive dissonance to me since they are surely female as well) whereas here the prejudice seems to permeate much of the verse. I might have given this two stars since the farming advice is at least somewhat interesting and new to me, but I have no qualms about bringing it down to a 1.5 for this reason alone.)
Theognis’ Elegies ★★★★
Usually when a lesser-known work or author is tagged onto a more famous one, the content seems pretty underwhelming (especially by comparison to the major work), but here I had the opposite experience. I was disappointed by my experience with Hesiod, but Theognis (whom I have studied in the past, but only very briefly and only a few verses of his) far exceeded my expectations and seemed even better by comparison to the former.
To some, as the translator said, Theognis may come across as unpleasant and self-important, but personally I found myself a lot more sympathetic towards him than she seemed to be: I enjoyed his misanthropy (I’ll take misanthropy over misogyny any time) and his general mistrust of other people, and felt I could connect with how jaded he was in a way that is unusual for me to feel with ancient writers. It very much enlivened the reading experience and has made him stand out to me from the more banal subject matter of some other ancient poets.
At first the elegies only held my interest somewhat and I didn’t find them particularly special, but as I got more into them I found myself connecting with Theognis’ mentality and social concerns more and more. If anything, it seems like Hesiod isn’t really for me, and Theognis was the saving grace of this collection. I hope I have the chance to study him in more depth in the future.
Although Hesiod was given a similar status to Homer in Greek society, it seems pretty clear that they are not really on the same level, whichever of the two poems of either you compare. At first, confusingly, I thought the introduction was trying to claim that the Theogony and Works and Days were written by two different people (which is entirely plausible, and the introduction does at least bring this up and discuss it), hence the dual authorship in the title, but instead they’ve included a lesser-known work, Theognis’ Elegies, in this edition. I’m not sure why the decision was made to pair Hesiod and Theognis together like this, but I’m at least glad to have read them both now, albeit for very different reasons.
Theogony ★★☆ (I considered giving this three stars, but it was really more of a 2½.)
As the title might suggest, this poem concerns the creation of the universe and how the theological Greek canon of gods as we know it came to be. In the introduction: “The Theogony was such a strain to translate; I kept having to check an impulse to improve it a little, on nearly every page. It was wonderful, exciting material…but the writer had managed to make so much of it tedious.” This didn’t exactly give me high hopes for reading the text itself, but I found some value in it nonetheless. It is obviously impressive to see so many different aspects of Greek mythology drawn together for an origin story, and the absence of mankind is an interesting detail, and may suggest that we are not, in fact, front and centre in existence, and the poem (and general Greek mentality) seems to attest to this as well.
I would agree with the introduction that it has a skewed sense of proportion (dramatic episodes given too little weight and more minor details too much), but for me the mediocre style didn’t tarnish the content enough to detract from my enjoyment, whereas in the Works and Days the style wasn’t enough to make up for it. I might feel differently reading them in Greek, but in English the divide is not that wide for me. Since the Greeks had no real definitive holy book a text like this might give some idea of where they were actually getting their mythological canon from outside of the less-definitive folklore passed down, but in terms of its actual merits as a piece of poetry it is nothing particularly special.
Works and Days ★
This poem is more of a didactic type, and like a lot of didactic poetry attempts to take a mundane subject (in this case, farming and moral instruction) and use poetic skill to make it seem fit for artistic focus, even when it really isn’t. In contrast to the Theogony, “The Works and Days was a pleasure to work on, and full of surprises…And this was the poem I had dreaded, expecting dull moralizing and a farmer’s almanac.” Perhaps the writing is more fluent in this work, but that was not enough to make up for the dismal subject matter and extremely annoying authorial tone (to be fair, there are other ancient works that are well written with plain subject matter that are very valuable, but I don’t find this to be one of them because I don’t think the writing ‘makes up for’ the content here). Obviously, I don’t agree with the translator. It seems like its main value is as a historical and cultural curiosity, and not really worth reading aside from that.
The style, as the translator promised, is fairly good, and admittedly better than the Theogony but was not anything particularly special in the end and the text could not save itself on this merit alone – and I do wish the translator wouldn’t try and make the verses rhyme (!) since this sometimes lends to meandering away from the accuracy of the translation, and (at least for me) doesn’t increase enjoyment of the verse in English. It baffles me that people have ever felt it appropriate to compare Hesiod with Homer.
Also, misogyny kills. (Seriously, I can’t be expected to like a work in which this comes across quite as strongly as it does here, because who could possibly enjoy having abuse hurled at them and their kind?
Spoiler
You wouldn’t expect a black person to enjoy Heart of Darkness.Theognis’ Elegies ★★★★
Usually when a lesser-known work or author is tagged onto a more famous one, the content seems pretty underwhelming (especially by comparison to the major work), but here I had the opposite experience. I was disappointed by my experience with Hesiod, but Theognis (whom I have studied in the past, but only very briefly and only a few verses of his) far exceeded my expectations and seemed even better by comparison to the former.
To some, as the translator said, Theognis may come across as unpleasant and self-important, but personally I found myself a lot more sympathetic towards him than she seemed to be: I enjoyed his misanthropy (I’ll take misanthropy over misogyny any time) and his general mistrust of other people, and felt I could connect with how jaded he was in a way that is unusual for me to feel with ancient writers. It very much enlivened the reading experience and has made him stand out to me from the more banal subject matter of some other ancient poets.
At first the elegies only held my interest somewhat and I didn’t find them particularly special, but as I got more into them I found myself connecting with Theognis’ mentality and social concerns more and more. If anything, it seems like Hesiod isn’t really for me, and Theognis was the saving grace of this collection. I hope I have the chance to study him in more depth in the future.
hramona's review against another edition
medium-paced
3.75
Hesiod; I can understand why the authorship of Theogny and Works and Days is so contested. The prior feels so utterly different to the later, and maybe he was just inexperienced but I’m not sure. In Theogny Hesiod writes as though Zeus is utterly infallible, never wrong, never tricked (which we all know is nonsense), yet in Works and Days he writes of how Zeus is tricked so??
The Theogny felt as though a close relative was telling you a really wild story but instead of telling you the really fucking good bits, tells you about all the people involved, and all of their families members and how the person they robbed a bank with ‘s second cousins aunties grandma twice removed was called Janet.
The Works and Days is truly fascinating. The advice he is giving is astoundingly accurate to the day of doing things (harvesting, ploughing, setting sail) which seems bonkers and amazing. And at least in this, his hatred of women is less aggressive and much more amusing (yeah I WILL shake my ass at a man to get his barn Hesiod and it’ll fucking work too).
And then Theognis. Oh, Theognis. You’re a very paranoid, self-conscious, petulant little man child. There’s some cracking bits of wisdom and some truly beautifully poetic lines in the Elegies that you just can’t shake the mastery of, but considering he spends the majority of the time talking about poor him his friends are such bastards (probably told him they were washing their hair and later he saw them partying), and how money is immaterial and doesn’t matter BUT HIS GOT TAKEN AWAY ITS SO UNFAIR!!!! and also, wine? Like a LOT about wine. I think he might have just been a very paranoid, self indulgent, and lonely man. My advice: stop being a dick to Kurnos, you’re pretty hard to be around as is, give him a break dude.
The Theogny felt as though a close relative was telling you a really wild story but instead of telling you the really fucking good bits, tells you about all the people involved, and all of their families members and how the person they robbed a bank with ‘s second cousins aunties grandma twice removed was called Janet.
The Works and Days is truly fascinating. The advice he is giving is astoundingly accurate to the day of doing things (harvesting, ploughing, setting sail) which seems bonkers and amazing. And at least in this, his hatred of women is less aggressive and much more amusing (yeah I WILL shake my ass at a man to get his barn Hesiod and it’ll fucking work too).
And then Theognis. Oh, Theognis. You’re a very paranoid, self-conscious, petulant little man child. There’s some cracking bits of wisdom and some truly beautifully poetic lines in the Elegies that you just can’t shake the mastery of, but considering he spends the majority of the time talking about poor him his friends are such bastards (probably told him they were washing their hair and later he saw them partying), and how money is immaterial and doesn’t matter BUT HIS GOT TAKEN AWAY ITS SO UNFAIR!!!! and also, wine? Like a LOT about wine. I think he might have just been a very paranoid, self indulgent, and lonely man. My advice: stop being a dick to Kurnos, you’re pretty hard to be around as is, give him a break dude.