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ozgipsy's review against another edition
5.0
A great course that reveals The Illiad as an Epic of great sophistication and depth.
As always, [a:Elizabeth Vandiver|151655|Elizabeth Vandiver|https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1233695499p2/151655.jpg] intertwines historical details with carefully researched analysis to create a detailed and entertaining lecture series. This includes scholarly disagreements over the identity of "Homer", the norms and prohibitions of ancient Greek culture, and the narrative and metrical structure of the epic poem.
The core of [b:these lectures|59591124|The Iliad of Homer|Elizabeth Vandiver|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1636625891l/59591124._SX50_.jpg|49613170], however, is the analysis of the story and characters. Steeped in philosophical explanations of the time, Vandiver presents explanations that are not easily divined from written words. In particular, her explanation of the true nature of the greek gods is enlightening and cleaves the tale from the Judeo-Christian filter we see them through.
Layers of Meaning
Those who have not read draw their beliefs from the pop-culture representations, which themselves pull elements from later epics, tragedies, and contemporary works like The Aegimius. Unlike modern tales, The Iliad starts and ends in the middle of the larger story. (In media res)
Helen has already been taken from the home of Spartan king Menelaus and we are not told if she was abducted or not. Achilles is not immortal, sustaining injuries during the story. He also does not die in the poem. His death is prophesied but he still lives by the end.
Moreover, there is no Trojan horse, no sack of Troy, no sacrifice of the daughter of Agamemnon, and the greek gods are active players in the story. Different gods appear on the battlefield more than once and actively scheming on either side as well as between themselves.
The overarching themes are not about the love story between Helen and Paris, the anger of Menelaus, or even the Trojan war. We are told in the very beginning that it is about the wrath of Achilles. First, his wrath at a deliberate breach of his honour by Agamemnon, and later as he rages over the death of his friend Patroclus.
The subversive moral of the story
Vandiver excels at exposing the true lessons being taught by the bard. In particular the danger of excess on the warrior's values of honour and glory. We see this primarily in the consequences of Achilles' rage, but also in the steadfastness of Priam the King of Troy.
Priam is risking, thousands of warriors, the life of his eldest son Hector, the chance of slavery of their women, and his very civilisation. All for the love interest of his cowardly younger son Paris, for who Helen expresses her hatred.
Worthwhile?
This lecture series is essential for anybody wishing to expand their knowledge of ancient greek legends and mythology. It will add value to a reading of The Iliad, and provide great insights for those who have not. The psychological depth and sophistication of Homer's epics will make you rethink your views of ancient cultures.
There are a lot of lessons in these ancient books that Vandiver helps to draw out. The need for honour and glory, and the dangers of seeking them. The need for family and connection is demonstrated by Hector, and the dangers of isolation are demonstrated in Achilles.
I will be listening to this again.
As always, [a:Elizabeth Vandiver|151655|Elizabeth Vandiver|https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1233695499p2/151655.jpg] intertwines historical details with carefully researched analysis to create a detailed and entertaining lecture series. This includes scholarly disagreements over the identity of "Homer", the norms and prohibitions of ancient Greek culture, and the narrative and metrical structure of the epic poem.
The core of [b:these lectures|59591124|The Iliad of Homer|Elizabeth Vandiver|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1636625891l/59591124._SX50_.jpg|49613170], however, is the analysis of the story and characters. Steeped in philosophical explanations of the time, Vandiver presents explanations that are not easily divined from written words. In particular, her explanation of the true nature of the greek gods is enlightening and cleaves the tale from the Judeo-Christian filter we see them through.
Layers of Meaning
Those who have not read draw their beliefs from the pop-culture representations, which themselves pull elements from later epics, tragedies, and contemporary works like The Aegimius. Unlike modern tales, The Iliad starts and ends in the middle of the larger story. (In media res)
Helen has already been taken from the home of Spartan king Menelaus and we are not told if she was abducted or not. Achilles is not immortal, sustaining injuries during the story. He also does not die in the poem. His death is prophesied but he still lives by the end.
Moreover, there is no Trojan horse, no sack of Troy, no sacrifice of the daughter of Agamemnon, and the greek gods are active players in the story. Different gods appear on the battlefield more than once and actively scheming on either side as well as between themselves.
The overarching themes are not about the love story between Helen and Paris, the anger of Menelaus, or even the Trojan war. We are told in the very beginning that it is about the wrath of Achilles. First, his wrath at a deliberate breach of his honour by Agamemnon, and later as he rages over the death of his friend Patroclus.
The subversive moral of the story
Vandiver excels at exposing the true lessons being taught by the bard. In particular the danger of excess on the warrior's values of honour and glory. We see this primarily in the consequences of Achilles' rage, but also in the steadfastness of Priam the King of Troy.
Priam is risking, thousands of warriors, the life of his eldest son Hector, the chance of slavery of their women, and his very civilisation. All for the love interest of his cowardly younger son Paris, for who Helen expresses her hatred.
Worthwhile?
This lecture series is essential for anybody wishing to expand their knowledge of ancient greek legends and mythology. It will add value to a reading of The Iliad, and provide great insights for those who have not. The psychological depth and sophistication of Homer's epics will make you rethink your views of ancient cultures.
There are a lot of lessons in these ancient books that Vandiver helps to draw out. The need for honour and glory, and the dangers of seeking them. The need for family and connection is demonstrated by Hector, and the dangers of isolation are demonstrated in Achilles.
I will be listening to this again.
sarah_speaks's review
informative
medium-paced
5.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Death, Grief, and War
Minor: Slavery
friends2lovers's review
informative
reflective
medium-paced
3.5
Overall, this lecture series was valuable and helpful as I progressed through the Iliad. Vandiver points out and explains the meaning or context behind significant passages, character arcs, imagery, etc.. I did not agree with, or am skeptical about, some of V.’s interpretations. But there were also many elements of the story that I would not have appreciated had I read the Iliad on my own. For example, V. explains the importance of honor (τῑμή, tīmḗ) and glory (κλέος, kléos) in the Homeric warrior ethos, which helps make Achilles a more understandable and sympathetic character. My favorite lecture was № 12 where V. discusses how the final scenes, which focus on the grief of Achilles and Priam, tie in beautifully with the major themes—mortality and humanity—of the whole epic. I teared up when V. read an excerpt from Tennyson’s poem, In Memoriam.
Each lecture covers a particular section of the Iliad, so you’re meant to complete the 'essential reading' then listen to the corresponding lecture. Unfortunately, V. doesn’t state at the beginning of each lecture what books are being covered. Since I borrowed the audiobook from Hoopla, I had to scour the internet for a copy of the course guidebook in order to get the intended reading/listening order (listed below in the endnotes).
I would listen to Vandiver’s other Great Courses lecture series, and am particularly interested in: Greek Tragedy, The Odyssey of Homer, and The Aeneid of Virgil.
I would listen to Vandiver’s other Great Courses lecture series, and am particularly interested in: Greek Tragedy, The Odyssey of Homer, and The Aeneid of Virgil.
Series: The Great Courses > Literature and Language > Western Literature
Genre: Nonfiction, Literary Criticism
Subject: Homer’s the Iliad, Greek Mythology, Ancient Greece, the Homeric Epics
Format: audiobook, published in 1999, borrowed from MCLS via Hoopla, Course Guidebook (PDF)
Length: 6h, 4m (12 lectures, ~30m each)
Read Date: May 29, 2022
Recommended Reading/Listening Order:
Recommended Reading/Listening Order:
- Lecture One: Introduction to Homeric Epic
- Lecture Two: The Homeric Question
- Books 1–2
- Lecture Three: Glory, Honor, and the Wrath of Achilles
- Books 3–6
- Lecture Four: Within the Walls of Troy
- Books 7–9
- Lecture Five: The Embassy to Achilles
- Books 10–12
- Lecture Six: The Paradox of Glory
- Books 13–15
- Lecture Seven: The Role of the Gods
- Lecture Eight: The Longest Day
- Books 16–17
- Lecture Nine: The Death of Patroklos
- Books 18–21
- Lecture Ten: Achilles Returns to Battle
- Book 22
- Lecture Eleven: Achilles and Hektor
- Books 23–24
- Lecture Twelve: Enemies’ Tears: Achilles and Priam
Content Warnings
Graphic: Death, Grief, and War
Minor: Slavery
tlsouthard's review
4.0
A 12 lesson (6 hour) discussion of The Iliad. Elizabeth Vandiver is a jewel of a teacher. I would love to sit in her class. So, next best thing? Teaching company CDs.
Thoroughly enjoyed. Now on to the Odyssey.
Thoroughly enjoyed. Now on to the Odyssey.
graywacke's review
4.0
Vandiver gets four stars because she does very well within the (limited) context of these Great Courses. Overall it's very light stuff, but she makes it interesting, captures a lot and adds in several interesting details. She has lectures on the Odyssey, the Aeneid and on Greek Mythology and I may just try them all.
mikusa's review
4.0
Not a bad overview. She loves her stuff, like looooooooves the Iliad. It was informative. One thing that bothered me, and I fear it permeates the thinking of people who dedicate their lives to esoteric topics, is that she sees soooooooooooooo much meaning in certain parts of the story. It bothers me because I think she could argue for the profundity of the most mundane detail. She mentions that some scholars think the ending is abrupt and unfinished, but she finds a way to think of it as perfect. In cognitive biases terms, it's called 'fitting'. Buuuut, maybe she's right.
kikiandarrowsfishshelf's review
4.0
Good little course in the Iliad. Vandiver's passion is quite clear and she makes connections to later literature as well. There is a good background selection as well.
vittorioseg's review against another edition
2.0
It was an interesting perspective for the Iliad. Honestly, I found so many things that I have absorbed through osmosis of the Iliad that they never appear on it and the lectures were kind of interesting if there were moments when it came somewhat flat. A great first step for my read of the Iliad directly.
halcyon_nights's review
3.0
I think the lectures are a great way to get a better understanding of the Iliad's themes and concepts that don't translate well into English. The Lecturer has an engaging style and the lectures weren't dull or dry. Though I would have enjoyed this more had it included a more thorough analysis of the epic.