angstyp's review
1.0
For the love of sex and relationship education, do not consider this book to be a valid resource. I am disgusted by the language and discourse here.
FFS, go talk to a woman instead of reading this trash.
FFS, go talk to a woman instead of reading this trash.
kwugirl's review
4.0
I am of course not the target market for this book, but I was very curious after reading about it at http://jakeseliger.com/2015/09/23/briefly-noted-mate-is-out-and-its-good-tucker-max-and-geoffrey-miller/ and considering essays like http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-romanceless/ which made me want to be more compassionate towards lonely, awkward young men who may want to do the right thing but don't have any guides that aren't douches. I mean, I do think Nice Guy syndrome is totally a thing, but maybe outside of religious institutions, I can see how there isn't much information out there to concretely teach young heterosexual men how to become better people, if they didn't figure it out on their own or have good role models around.
The approach in this book is smart, it's basically "you can get what you want in an ethical way, by becoming a better person, here are specifics on what that means" and "there are women who will want what you can offer, find them and don't waste your energy people pining over people who won't reciprocate." It dismisses PUA and leftist feminism fairly equally, and satisfied my bar for respect towards women as independent entities. They walk a good line between talking about how to build up your self-esteem and confidence (completely par for the course in self-help books targeted towards women, but I imagine something that's often treated with derision when it's for men) but also completely smacking down any sense of entitlement that you deserve attention from others just because you're doing the right thing.
I don't know how much faith can be placed on evolutionary psychology research, for the whole "how to get women, backed by SCIENCE!" part of the pitch, but as with many psychology things, it feels plausible and logical enough. The social psychology is probably the most on target, with more sophisticated than usual discussion of signaling and jives with how I feel people operate in real life, anyway.
I don't think there's anyone in my life currently that I'd get this book for, but in general it seems to me like this book is a better approach then the calls on "teach men not to rape" sort of thing--by which I mean, we should totally have conversations about consent and how it's tricky and complex, but I don't think we get as far as we could when we only tell people don't do this & don't do that, versus teaching them what they should do instead, to be ethical & happy both.
The approach in this book is smart, it's basically "you can get what you want in an ethical way, by becoming a better person, here are specifics on what that means" and "there are women who will want what you can offer, find them and don't waste your energy people pining over people who won't reciprocate." It dismisses PUA and leftist feminism fairly equally, and satisfied my bar for respect towards women as independent entities. They walk a good line between talking about how to build up your self-esteem and confidence (completely par for the course in self-help books targeted towards women, but I imagine something that's often treated with derision when it's for men) but also completely smacking down any sense of entitlement that you deserve attention from others just because you're doing the right thing.
I don't know how much faith can be placed on evolutionary psychology research, for the whole "how to get women, backed by SCIENCE!" part of the pitch, but as with many psychology things, it feels plausible and logical enough. The social psychology is probably the most on target, with more sophisticated than usual discussion of signaling and jives with how I feel people operate in real life, anyway.
I don't think there's anyone in my life currently that I'd get this book for, but in general it seems to me like this book is a better approach then the calls on "teach men not to rape" sort of thing--by which I mean, we should totally have conversations about consent and how it's tricky and complex, but I don't think we get as far as we could when we only tell people don't do this & don't do that, versus teaching them what they should do instead, to be ethical & happy both.
outworkchief's review
3.0
Tucker’s cult classic, I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell, is one of my all-time favorite books. It is raunchy, hilarious, and really well-written. Max is a superb writer that understands how to relate to his readers and has created an entire genre of satire in the process. What Women Want is perhaps his attempt to undo some of his wrongs, such as introducing a generation of guys that are out “story hunting.”
It is more than a step by step guide since Miller is a Ph.D. that studies evolutionary psychology. They combine Max’s real-world experience with Miller’s deep research to address guy’s actions and women’s responses. The book is primarily centered around the five principles of mating success: make decisions with science (not bias), account for the woman’s perspective, own your attractiveness, be honest (with yourself and others), and play to win-win.
Check out more at www.outworkinc.com
r/Onward
It is more than a step by step guide since Miller is a Ph.D. that studies evolutionary psychology. They combine Max’s real-world experience with Miller’s deep research to address guy’s actions and women’s responses. The book is primarily centered around the five principles of mating success: make decisions with science (not bias), account for the woman’s perspective, own your attractiveness, be honest (with yourself and others), and play to win-win.
Check out more at www.outworkinc.com
r/Onward
lcardentey's review
4.0
Be a better man.
It obvious, the book is full of resources and examples on how to improve.
No actual PÚA tricks or anything like that.
It obvious, the book is full of resources and examples on how to improve.
No actual PÚA tricks or anything like that.
jrofrano's review
4.0
**Below is what I sent in as feedback on their site**
I just finished reading mate. Before I get started I should state that I've been a tucker max fan since I was in high school (graduated 06). We skipped (high) school one day to go down to University of Maryland to have our copies of "I hope they serve beer in hell" signed. It was awesome; tucker looked hungover and miserable, my young life was complete. I've also been listening to the podcast "Helping Joe" since the first episode. I am now 27 and was ecstatic to learn about a new podcast featuring my drunken childhood hero, Tucker Max.
With that backstory, I felt the book was somewhat lacking. I have garnered a great deal of useful things from both the podcast and, to a lesser extent, the book. I can't help but feel that the podcast was far more useful to me. To rephrase my previous thought; the book was a mere summary of what I had already heard and learned from the podcast. To those that haven't listened to the podcast I imagine this book is a treasure trove of information not readily available to the average "Joe" (cliche, I know, I apologize). I just felt that I wanted more out of the book; it was too shallow and full of platitudes at times that didn't really help me in any significant way. I also found myself skimming the book too often because a lot of what I was reading I had literally heard Dr. Miller and Tucker tell Joe (and me the fly on the wall).
I think in making this book, there was a decision to keep things aimed at a younger more juvenile audience that left me thinking, "I know all this stuff, and I've heard all this before". I know that in order to sell books you have to reach beyond people like me but I think a more "advanced" version of this book in the future would be great; although I'm not sure how you'd do that without alienating the vast majority of your audience.
With that said, I enjoyed reading the book and did find some of the information useful; specifically the part in the back where they recommend other books and the part about dieting (although this again was lacking). The section on mating markets was good; but I was really hoping for more out of it. I just felt like I couldn't get concise information and that the advice was too broad. I also enjoyed the part where they talk about where you live and why you live there, it got me thinking a lot about my personal situation.
Finally, the takeaways at the end of each chapter made me take the book, and the information in it; less seriously. I can't explain exactly why, but it felt like I was reading the rough draft of the chapter in bullet form. (probably this is because it wasn't aimed at readers who were actually reading the book).
I just finished reading mate. Before I get started I should state that I've been a tucker max fan since I was in high school (graduated 06). We skipped (high) school one day to go down to University of Maryland to have our copies of "I hope they serve beer in hell" signed. It was awesome; tucker looked hungover and miserable, my young life was complete. I've also been listening to the podcast "Helping Joe" since the first episode. I am now 27 and was ecstatic to learn about a new podcast featuring my drunken childhood hero, Tucker Max.
With that backstory, I felt the book was somewhat lacking. I have garnered a great deal of useful things from both the podcast and, to a lesser extent, the book. I can't help but feel that the podcast was far more useful to me. To rephrase my previous thought; the book was a mere summary of what I had already heard and learned from the podcast. To those that haven't listened to the podcast I imagine this book is a treasure trove of information not readily available to the average "Joe" (cliche, I know, I apologize). I just felt that I wanted more out of the book; it was too shallow and full of platitudes at times that didn't really help me in any significant way. I also found myself skimming the book too often because a lot of what I was reading I had literally heard Dr. Miller and Tucker tell Joe (and me the fly on the wall).
I think in making this book, there was a decision to keep things aimed at a younger more juvenile audience that left me thinking, "I know all this stuff, and I've heard all this before". I know that in order to sell books you have to reach beyond people like me but I think a more "advanced" version of this book in the future would be great; although I'm not sure how you'd do that without alienating the vast majority of your audience.
With that said, I enjoyed reading the book and did find some of the information useful; specifically the part in the back where they recommend other books and the part about dieting (although this again was lacking). The section on mating markets was good; but I was really hoping for more out of it. I just felt like I couldn't get concise information and that the advice was too broad. I also enjoyed the part where they talk about where you live and why you live there, it got me thinking a lot about my personal situation.
Finally, the takeaways at the end of each chapter made me take the book, and the information in it; less seriously. I can't explain exactly why, but it felt like I was reading the rough draft of the chapter in bullet form. (probably this is because it wasn't aimed at readers who were actually reading the book).
brianrenaud's review
3.0
The authors attempt to portray a women's viewpoint for choosing men. The combination of common sense and current beliefs in evolutionary biology is plausible, for the most part. Their target audience is men in their late teens and twenties. I would have benefited from reading this book forty-some years ago, and perhaps even now.
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