cburling's review against another edition
Very early on in Consider Phlebos, I could tell that his writing style just wasn't for me.
elusivity's review against another edition
3.0
Excellent writing, but once more, I find myself scratching my head over the ultimate point of this novel.
In the ongoing debate, it is often said that genre fiction goes primarily by plot, whereas literary fiction is much more accepting of static portraiture of a person/ situation /worldview /etc. (Let us not get bogged down by the fact that all narratives have plot, however rudimentary or fragmented.)
So have I, a person immersed in SF genre fiction, looking at this through the wrong lens (i.e. SF plot-focused lens, rather than a philosophical one)?
Among the many plot-strands is a lovely portion of Quilan, heart-broken by the loss of his spouse, who agrees to engage to murder a Mind and billions of Culture citizens in exchange for justified self-annihilation. However, the plot ultimately goes no where; was revealed to have no chance of succeeding even at its outset. Should I, instead of waiting for the payoff and been disappointed thereby, have been savoring it simply as an exploration of what kind of a creature can undertake such a task, while cross-referencing extensively with stories of our now-a-day kamikaze terrorist /freedom-fighters?
Another beautiful section concerned a Culture citizen in a distant part of the galaxy, involving the truly fascinating lives of the dirigible behemothaurs and their attendants, who discovered a strand of the plot and proceeded on a short, and failed, attempt to carry forth a warning. This too, went nowhere. Is this part simply to show that much of mortal action is destined to go nowhere, as well to allow the behemothaurs to comment, hundreds of millions of years after these recorded events, that all mortal striving is like trying to write a novel in the sand, and even the mightiest will one day be less than Ozymandias?
Regardless, I have been consistently underwhelmed by these Culture novels, and still have 3 more to go. Sigh...
In the ongoing debate, it is often said that genre fiction goes primarily by plot, whereas literary fiction is much more accepting of static portraiture of a person/ situation /worldview /etc. (Let us not get bogged down by the fact that all narratives have plot, however rudimentary or fragmented.)
So have I, a person immersed in SF genre fiction, looking at this through the wrong lens (i.e. SF plot-focused lens, rather than a philosophical one)?
Among the many plot-strands is a lovely portion of Quilan, heart-broken by the loss of his spouse, who agrees to engage to murder a Mind and billions of Culture citizens in exchange for justified self-annihilation. However, the plot ultimately goes no where; was revealed to have no chance of succeeding even at its outset. Should I, instead of waiting for the payoff and been disappointed thereby, have been savoring it simply as an exploration of what kind of a creature can undertake such a task, while cross-referencing extensively with stories of our now-a-day kamikaze terrorist /freedom-fighters?
Another beautiful section concerned a Culture citizen in a distant part of the galaxy, involving the truly fascinating lives of the dirigible behemothaurs and their attendants, who discovered a strand of the plot and proceeded on a short, and failed, attempt to carry forth a warning. This too, went nowhere. Is this part simply to show that much of mortal action is destined to go nowhere, as well to allow the behemothaurs to comment, hundreds of millions of years after these recorded events, that all mortal striving is like trying to write a novel in the sand, and even the mightiest will one day be less than Ozymandias?
Regardless, I have been consistently underwhelmed by these Culture novels, and still have 3 more to go. Sigh...
mschlat's review against another edition
3.0
Maybe more like 2.5 stars.... The big positive of this novel is that much of it takes place in the Culture (on an Orbital) instead of the surrounding galactic societies (as is usually the case), so you get many many glimpses of what life is like for a typical Culture citizen.
The negatives are two-fold. One, much of the story focuses on non-human protagonists from non-Culture worlds, and while the non-Culture aspect is very clear (they comment regularly on spoiled Culture folk), the non-human is not. You could make these characters human with very little alteration. Two, much more of the ending than I expected comes out of the blue. I was hoping for a "here's how the threads come together" experience and got something much more disconnected.
The negatives are two-fold. One, much of the story focuses on non-human protagonists from non-Culture worlds, and while the non-Culture aspect is very clear (they comment regularly on spoiled Culture folk), the non-human is not. You could make these characters human with very little alteration. Two, much more of the ending than I expected comes out of the blue. I was hoping for a "here's how the threads come together" experience and got something much more disconnected.
pauljacobson's review against another edition
5.0
Still a favourite second time around
I enjoyed this book the first time around and my second reading was even better. The blending of the story lines was seamless and the anonymous chatter throughout the book just added the right amount of levity to what was a drama at times.
I enjoyed this book the first time around and my second reading was even better. The blending of the story lines was seamless and the anonymous chatter throughout the book just added the right amount of levity to what was a drama at times.
miracletonic's review against another edition
adventurous
mysterious
reflective
sad
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.75
gullevek's review against another edition
5.0
I say that next to the first book this is the one of the best, if not the best in the Culture series books I have read.
Everything from the story, the settings, the characters, everything is just really amazing. Well written, well laid out, amazing plot. And on top of that a really satisfying ending.
Highly recommended to everyone.
Everything from the story, the settings, the characters, everything is just really amazing. Well written, well laid out, amazing plot. And on top of that a really satisfying ending.
Highly recommended to everyone.
smithjasont01's review against another edition
adventurous
sad
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.25
"Yes. The dead escape death in heaven, and the living escape life in dreams"
Book number 7 of the Culture series. We follow two citizens of a non culture race called the Chelgrians. One is an exiled composer living in the culture on an orbital world. The other is an ex military member who's wife has died and is being sent on a mission to destroy the orbital. This is a revenge mission to get back at the culture because they do what they do and that is meddle in the politics of lesser civilizations to push them into what they consider a morally right path. The only issue is it backfired and caused a civil war killing millions of chel citizens, which causes them to not be allowed into the very real heaven that this civilization has cretaed. Meanwhile Ziller is creating a symphony on the orbital that will coinside with the timing of light from two super novas that were set off during a war against the culture 800 odd years earlier. Quinlan is tasked to destroy the orbital at the same time this light hits and so the two paths come together. The orbital itself is controlled by a Mind that fought in the war and was suffering grief from the things it was supposed to do, including destroying 3 culture orbitals.
This book takes a step back and focuses on the culture of the culture. We see how many of the citizens live and go about their lives on this orbital, seeking out adventure wherever possible.
I loved getting to see the outside view of the culture how their meddling doesn't always go the way they want and how civilizations deal with that meddling.
Grief, pstd, and loss are all big themes throughout. We also see more of his ongoing discussion on religion versus science.
Overall and excellent entry in the series.
Book number 7 of the Culture series. We follow two citizens of a non culture race called the Chelgrians. One is an exiled composer living in the culture on an orbital world. The other is an ex military member who's wife has died and is being sent on a mission to destroy the orbital. This is a revenge mission to get back at the culture because they do what they do and that is meddle in the politics of lesser civilizations to push them into what they consider a morally right path. The only issue is it backfired and caused a civil war killing millions of chel citizens, which causes them to not be allowed into the very real heaven that this civilization has cretaed. Meanwhile Ziller is creating a symphony on the orbital that will coinside with the timing of light from two super novas that were set off during a war against the culture 800 odd years earlier. Quinlan is tasked to destroy the orbital at the same time this light hits and so the two paths come together. The orbital itself is controlled by a Mind that fought in the war and was suffering grief from the things it was supposed to do, including destroying 3 culture orbitals.
This book takes a step back and focuses on the culture of the culture. We see how many of the citizens live and go about their lives on this orbital, seeking out adventure wherever possible.
I loved getting to see the outside view of the culture how their meddling doesn't always go the way they want and how civilizations deal with that meddling.
Grief, pstd, and loss are all big themes throughout. We also see more of his ongoing discussion on religion versus science.
Overall and excellent entry in the series.
jefffrane's review against another edition
5.0
I think this would be a great introduction to Banks for someone who hasn't read any of his work. It's wildly imaginative, playful, suspenseful and messes with time and the reader's assumptions in a very Banks-y manner without being difficult. Some of Iain M. Banks' work can be very difficult indeed and I'd never suggest someone start with, oh, Feersum Endjinn unless they're very comfortable with non-linear stories and bizarre language but this, this is perfect. It's fun!
ldasoqi's review against another edition
3.0
"... Yes, fuck off through the crowd, you cretin."
Dedicated to the gulf war veterans, Look to Windward is all about war, PTSD, trauma and the wonders of symphonic music. The Culture for the unacquainted is a far in the future anarcho-utopian space faring civilization run by altruistic and smarmy sentient AI Minds. In their quest to do good, the Culture makes contact with space-faring but comparatively primitive civilizations and does its best to break down existing hierarchies and build up democracies. While it sounds a lot like American hegemony and imperialist meddling, the Culture promises it isn't, and they can statistically prove it.
Sometimes in their quest for galactic peace and love the Culture make mistakes, and this book concerns itself with one such example. In this case, the Culture works to break down the caste system of the Chelgrians. Things don't go according to plan when the new president of Chel, a member of the lowest caste and installed by the Culture, decides that what he really wants is pay back and kicks off bloody civil war.
I found this book to have incredibly strong prose and dialogue. This is head and shoulders above the rest of the series. I thought Inversions was peak Banks but I was wrong, this book is peak. Whether it's enchanting landscapes, witty wordplay, or clearly drawn characters there's really nothing but nice things to say about the book. Some of the dialogue made me laugh out loud, and there's ton of self-referential humor (at a certain point the characters converse by quoting the trademark silly ship names). There is an enjoyable balance between wit and poetic sentiment, some of these passages are hauntingly beautiful.
Unfortunately as enjoyable as this was to read, the plot and message were very frustrating to grapple with. This is a book with a lot to say, but it doesn't really ever get to the point. For all the pretty words and witty jokes there is a failure to explore the questions it poses. Most of the story is spent building up complex questions only for the resolution to be: Culture good, war bad, we're sorry.
Note: I also wanted to shout out Peter Kenny's incredible delivery in the audiobook recording, his take on the dialogue superseded my own inner narration whenever I settled in to read a few chapters.
PLOT:
The story follows two Chelgrians. Ziller is a famous Chelgrian composer so disgusted by his society and their caste system, that he renounces Chel and chooses to live amongst the Culture. Ziller is easily the best character in the book, and probably my favorite in the series; he's blunt, irascible, and hilariously vulgar. Quilan, a Chelgrian soldier whose body is rebuilt after the end of the war, wakes up to find his wife dead and the Culture to blame. Empty and grief-stricken Quilan is chosen for a mission; on the surface he will try to convince Ziller to return to Chel but hidden in his memories is a plot for revenge against the Culture.
Playing out on two levels the plot concerns itself with the conspiracy of Quil and the Chelgrians on one hand, and the larger questions of intervention and the nature of death on the other. At this point in the series I can safely say that the tension of the A plot is largely non-existent, the Minds of the Culture are clever and you can count on them to always find the solution in time. The B plot is what I found the most entertaining by far.
For a book that's about the experience of war there's a tremendous gap between the experience of the Chelgrians, gruesome and self destructive, and the Culture. Sure they're really sorry about the whole affair, but the war doesn't impact their society in the slightest. The contrast evokes Iraq war sentiment to me, given that this was written pre 9/11, I get the feeling that this is Bank's discourse concerning the gulf war. Hub, the mind of the orbital platform where the story takes place, is the only Culture character to have experienced war directly. Unfortunately the character of Hub cannot bridge the divide, and the interventionist issue is really never explored to any satisfaction. There were already a ton of characters but this book would have really benefited from the perspective of a Culture agent.
Death, its permanence, and its escape feature heavily in this book. Are you the same person after your revive from death? The Culture provides handy backups of its citizens personalities should they suffer meat death. The question of whether or not you are still you is presented only to never be answered. The premise of death and the value of life is a little thin, with the only question of substance being the value of life in a post-death society. If I had to describe the overall philosophy on display I think "a little thin" could apply to the whole thing.
TL;DR: Wonderful prose and a tight plot would usually make a great book, but when you ask big questions and offer small answers the reader is left frustrated. This is somewhere between 2 and 3 stars, I gave it 3 based on the quality of the prose alone.
Dedicated to the gulf war veterans, Look to Windward is all about war, PTSD, trauma and the wonders of symphonic music. The Culture for the unacquainted is a far in the future anarcho-utopian space faring civilization run by altruistic and smarmy sentient AI Minds. In their quest to do good, the Culture makes contact with space-faring but comparatively primitive civilizations and does its best to break down existing hierarchies and build up democracies. While it sounds a lot like American hegemony and imperialist meddling, the Culture promises it isn't, and they can statistically prove it.
Sometimes in their quest for galactic peace and love the Culture make mistakes, and this book concerns itself with one such example. In this case, the Culture works to break down the caste system of the Chelgrians. Things don't go according to plan when the new president of Chel, a member of the lowest caste and installed by the Culture, decides that what he really wants is pay back and kicks off bloody civil war.
I found this book to have incredibly strong prose and dialogue. This is head and shoulders above the rest of the series. I thought Inversions was peak Banks but I was wrong, this book is peak. Whether it's enchanting landscapes, witty wordplay, or clearly drawn characters there's really nothing but nice things to say about the book. Some of the dialogue made me laugh out loud, and there's ton of self-referential humor (at a certain point the characters converse by quoting the trademark silly ship names). There is an enjoyable balance between wit and poetic sentiment, some of these passages are hauntingly beautiful.
Unfortunately as enjoyable as this was to read, the plot and message were very frustrating to grapple with. This is a book with a lot to say, but it doesn't really ever get to the point. For all the pretty words and witty jokes there is a failure to explore the questions it poses. Most of the story is spent building up complex questions only for the resolution to be: Culture good, war bad, we're sorry.
Note: I also wanted to shout out Peter Kenny's incredible delivery in the audiobook recording, his take on the dialogue superseded my own inner narration whenever I settled in to read a few chapters.
PLOT:
The story follows two Chelgrians. Ziller is a famous Chelgrian composer so disgusted by his society and their caste system, that he renounces Chel and chooses to live amongst the Culture. Ziller is easily the best character in the book, and probably my favorite in the series; he's blunt, irascible, and hilariously vulgar. Quilan, a Chelgrian soldier whose body is rebuilt after the end of the war, wakes up to find his wife dead and the Culture to blame. Empty and grief-stricken Quilan is chosen for a mission; on the surface he will try to convince Ziller to return to Chel but hidden in his memories is a plot for revenge against the Culture.
Playing out on two levels the plot concerns itself with the conspiracy of Quil and the Chelgrians on one hand, and the larger questions of intervention and the nature of death on the other. At this point in the series I can safely say that the tension of the A plot is largely non-existent, the Minds of the Culture are clever and you can count on them to always find the solution in time. The B plot is what I found the most entertaining by far.
For a book that's about the experience of war there's a tremendous gap between the experience of the Chelgrians, gruesome and self destructive, and the Culture. Sure they're really sorry about the whole affair, but the war doesn't impact their society in the slightest. The contrast evokes Iraq war sentiment to me, given that this was written pre 9/11, I get the feeling that this is Bank's discourse concerning the gulf war. Hub, the mind of the orbital platform where the story takes place, is the only Culture character to have experienced war directly. Unfortunately the character of Hub cannot bridge the divide, and the interventionist issue is really never explored to any satisfaction. There were already a ton of characters but this book would have really benefited from the perspective of a Culture agent.
Death, its permanence, and its escape feature heavily in this book. Are you the same person after your revive from death? The Culture provides handy backups of its citizens personalities should they suffer meat death. The question of whether or not you are still you is presented only to never be answered. The premise of death and the value of life is a little thin, with the only question of substance being the value of life in a post-death society. If I had to describe the overall philosophy on display I think "a little thin" could apply to the whole thing.
TL;DR: Wonderful prose and a tight plot would usually make a great book, but when you ask big questions and offer small answers the reader is left frustrated. This is somewhere between 2 and 3 stars, I gave it 3 based on the quality of the prose alone.
tombomp's review against another edition
4.0
I sort of have a problem with the main backstory premise to the book, this spoiler reveals a lot of stuff that's revealed slowly over the course of the book
So like 1) In what way is it the culture's responsibility?
2) Why is the ending of the caste system presented as inevitably resulting in terrible violence worse than the caste system itself?
I don't want to be too like "well this doesn't follow my communist morality so it's bad" but it does feel like a very strange moral tale to have the oppressed become atrociously violent suddenly for no good reason and for it to be the wrong thing to have helped them at all. But even if we accept this, it seems strange to blame the Culture given that this was apparently something a significant amount of the population immediately took to. Although the Culture influenced things somewhat, apparently if the caste-enders had come to power "naturally" the same thing would have happened. If the politicians or even a decent amount of the population had a serious investment in the caste system they could easily have stopped things getting that far in the first place (although again that'd be bizarre, morally). So if there were no Culture intervention at all, either 1) the same thing would have happened, possibly over a longer timescale, given there seemed to be widespread agreement on what was done up until the war and no major pushback 2) the caste supporters would have objected, taken up a stronger position, and probably catalysed a civil war anyway which would probably have been just as bloody except with the oppressed castes in a far weaker position.
Of course, this is me being silly to a certain extent. Obviously it's fiction, you have a certain set up, and it's not pushing a super simplistic "oppressed people are bad for resisting" thing exactly. It's an attempt to set up a decent moral dilemma, and obviously if it's a moral dilemma there's no starting position that will totally satisfy me because it's always going to be unpleasant in some way! I mean like as a general opponent of most "intervention" in a real life context it's kind of weird of me to be defending the Culture in the book, even if it's not really like real interventions - we "know" the Culture is far more "good" than any state in real life, even with the bad stuff it does sometimes. The Chelgrian intervention also had very little benefit to them - in real life the bad consequences are often down to continuing oppression to benefit those who intervened.
But it's near impossible to create a close to real scenario in the Culture universe I think. I definitely appreciate the effort and think he did a great job - that I'm writing all these words about it is a good indication I think what he's written is worth thinking seriously about, heh. It's a pretty great thing to do to try and write a book about intervention like this - even if I don't think the premise is perfect to talk about the problems and consequences of "humanitarian intervention" even with seemingly "perfect" societies is good.
Although I did feel the civil war was intended to evoke memories of the Rwandan genocide, which seems kind of dodgy?
The book is good in general. It's full of descriptions of the Orbital, which are amazing although I'm bad at picturing stuff from descriptions and if you're better at that than me you'll probably like it even more. The truly alien environment of the airsphere was great to read about too. The ending is good - I did think (ending spoiler) Anyway yeah it's good
Spoiler
So the Culture is considered responsible for the caste civil war. They did this by influencing politics so a caste-ending politician became president, which led to a gradual but almost complete destruction of the caste system. Then the former lower castes just tried to kill the higher castes suddenly for some reason just at the moment the caste system was pretty nearly abolished. One of the members of the species suggests it was "natural" for it to happen because they're a "predator species". Yet it turns out that the two sides immediately make peace when it turns out the Culture had influenced things. The only reason the Culture are considered responsible for it is because they bribed parliamentarians to vote for this guy for president. The sudden civil war was entirely started by Chelgrians, apparently based on a sort of inevitability and their own plans.So like 1) In what way is it the culture's responsibility?
2) Why is the ending of the caste system presented as inevitably resulting in terrible violence worse than the caste system itself?
I don't want to be too like "well this doesn't follow my communist morality so it's bad" but it does feel like a very strange moral tale to have the oppressed become atrociously violent suddenly for no good reason and for it to be the wrong thing to have helped them at all. But even if we accept this, it seems strange to blame the Culture given that this was apparently something a significant amount of the population immediately took to. Although the Culture influenced things somewhat, apparently if the caste-enders had come to power "naturally" the same thing would have happened. If the politicians or even a decent amount of the population had a serious investment in the caste system they could easily have stopped things getting that far in the first place (although again that'd be bizarre, morally). So if there were no Culture intervention at all, either 1) the same thing would have happened, possibly over a longer timescale, given there seemed to be widespread agreement on what was done up until the war and no major pushback 2) the caste supporters would have objected, taken up a stronger position, and probably catalysed a civil war anyway which would probably have been just as bloody except with the oppressed castes in a far weaker position.
Of course, this is me being silly to a certain extent. Obviously it's fiction, you have a certain set up, and it's not pushing a super simplistic "oppressed people are bad for resisting" thing exactly. It's an attempt to set up a decent moral dilemma, and obviously if it's a moral dilemma there's no starting position that will totally satisfy me because it's always going to be unpleasant in some way! I mean like as a general opponent of most "intervention" in a real life context it's kind of weird of me to be defending the Culture in the book, even if it's not really like real interventions - we "know" the Culture is far more "good" than any state in real life, even with the bad stuff it does sometimes. The Chelgrian intervention also had very little benefit to them - in real life the bad consequences are often down to continuing oppression to benefit those who intervened.
But it's near impossible to create a close to real scenario in the Culture universe I think. I definitely appreciate the effort and think he did a great job - that I'm writing all these words about it is a good indication I think what he's written is worth thinking seriously about, heh. It's a pretty great thing to do to try and write a book about intervention like this - even if I don't think the premise is perfect to talk about the problems and consequences of "humanitarian intervention" even with seemingly "perfect" societies is good.
Although I did feel the civil war was intended to evoke memories of the Rwandan genocide, which seems kind of dodgy?
The book is good in general. It's full of descriptions of the Orbital, which are amazing although I'm bad at picturing stuff from descriptions and if you're better at that than me you'll probably like it even more. The truly alien environment of the airsphere was great to read about too. The ending is good - I did think (ending spoiler)