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lightoferebus's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
emotional
funny
hopeful
informative
inspiring
mysterious
reflective
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
5.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Death and Grief
Moderate: Body horror, Emotional abuse, Gore, Sexual content, Violence, Blood, Death of parent, Murder, and Alcohol
Minor: Ableism, Child abuse, Domestic abuse, Homophobia, Incest, Infidelity, Physical abuse, Rape, Sexual assault, Sexual violence, Suicidal thoughts, Torture, Kidnapping, Cannibalism, Sexual harassment, War, and Injury/Injury detail
nannahnannah's review
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
So, yes, I’ve watched and fallen in love with the TV drama The Untamed last year just like so many others. So when I found it was based on a novel, I had to read it! Thank god I was properly warned first, though … there’s a lot of content that I wouldn’t normally read. But because I loved the characters and storyline so much, I tried the book out.
Representation:
- as this takes place in ancient China, every character is Chinese
- now, I’m not sure I would consider this representation, really, because it’s written by a fujoshi, but … okay, well, besides a few chapters, the last few chapters, and the extras (AVOID AT ALL COSTS), I could relatively call this LGBT media, with a bi main protagonist and a gay love interest.
Wei Wuxian, the infamous Yiling Patriarch, became a villain and a demon in the eyes of the rest of the civilized cultivation world after creating Demonic Cultivation (aka becoming a necromancer). When he causes almost uncountable death, all the clans rise together against him, and Wei Wuxian’s reign of chaos ends.
Of course, though the timeline of the book switches between the present (thirteen years after Wei Wuxian’s death) and the past (before he even becomes the Yiling Patriarch), it’s clear this is only the beginning. For one, in the present timeline, Wei Wuxian is brought back to life. Secondly, Wei Wuxian’s spirit isn’t the only thing returning from his past: the weapon that made him so powerful before he died (and the thing he destroyed!) is somehow in use again. Thirdly, he’s just run into the very two people he wanted to avoid in this new life: his brother -- the one who took credit for his death -- and Lan Wangji, a skilled cultivator, the definition of righteousness, and someone who Wei Wuxian thought had despised him for his demonic cultivation.
Unfortunately, I’ll just have to imagine what this story could have been like in the hands of someone who didn’t fetishize gay men (or one who actually cared about women). Its potential to be an amazing book is just … and the way it’s wasted in Mo Xiang Tong Xiu’s hands because she just can’t view lgbt men as people other than something to salivate over and use for her own sexual satisfaction is too frustrating. Yes, these scenes made up about 10-15% of the book (and the horrifying extras; don’t read), but they were enough to completely throw me off, disgust me, and realize that as much as the plot, characters, and everything else in this book is written with such care, the story isn’t meant for lgbt people (or like … normal people) like me to enjoy. It’s for that gross niche audience: fujoshi and bl lovers. I don’t understand it; I don’t understand what makes that type of “romance” enjoyable -- why can’t these people enjoy a non-disturbing romance between two men?
It’s just so disappointing.
Because there’s just no way I can fully describe my frustration and disappointment, fine, I’ll move on. I don’t know if it was the translation (which is unofficial. There’s no real English translation for this novel, so I had to go through fan translations -- which, unfortunately, are also done by fetishists) or the actual writing by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu, but the book reads stilted and awkward. It’s one of those books that’s more dialogue than prose, but there aren’t even dialogue tags or beats! Maybe it’s the style that I’m not used to. Mo Xiang Tong Xiu also doesn’t seem to trust her audience to understand hints from text or dialogue, because she feels the need to explain everything. We understand what lying is, we promise (“Jin Ling clearly didn’t see Wen Ning and was making it up to distract Jiang Cheng so he would leave, etc., etc.” ← obviously not word for word).
Now, there’s lots to love about the book, too. The themes are amazing: challenge what you’re being taught and question who’s teaching you; always question your own choices constantly; how the younger generation can carry the intolerances of the older one, but how they also can be guided in other directions; how to deal when family and loved ones don’t have the same values/don’t think the same way you do -- and how do you continue to love them when they turn their backs on you?
Mo Xiang Tong Xiu also is a master of characterization and character arcs. And definitely plot twists. A big, big problem though is how she treats women -- lmao, which is a large problem with fujoshi in general. All of the women have tiny roles and are fridged, weak, and without fail die tragically. It’s pathetic.
Without making this like a dissertation, I’ll just sum it all up. Stick with the drama and other adaptations, especially since the drama takes a lot of the dialogue directly from the novel. Look up specific scenes if you really want to, but honestly? The sweet romance of the tv drama will make you feel so much more than the (non-con) sex in the book.
Representation:
- as this takes place in ancient China, every character is Chinese
- now, I’m not sure I would consider this representation, really, because it’s written by a fujoshi, but … okay, well, besides a few chapters, the last few chapters, and the extras (AVOID AT ALL COSTS), I could relatively call this LGBT media, with a bi main protagonist and a gay love interest.
Wei Wuxian, the infamous Yiling Patriarch, became a villain and a demon in the eyes of the rest of the civilized cultivation world after creating Demonic Cultivation (aka becoming a necromancer). When he causes almost uncountable death, all the clans rise together against him, and Wei Wuxian’s reign of chaos ends.
Of course, though the timeline of the book switches between the present (thirteen years after Wei Wuxian’s death) and the past (before he even becomes the Yiling Patriarch), it’s clear this is only the beginning. For one, in the present timeline, Wei Wuxian is brought back to life. Secondly, Wei Wuxian’s spirit isn’t the only thing returning from his past: the weapon that made him so powerful before he died (and the thing he destroyed!) is somehow in use again. Thirdly, he’s just run into the very two people he wanted to avoid in this new life: his brother -- the one who took credit for his death -- and Lan Wangji, a skilled cultivator, the definition of righteousness, and someone who Wei Wuxian thought had despised him for his demonic cultivation.
Unfortunately, I’ll just have to imagine what this story could have been like in the hands of someone who didn’t fetishize gay men (or one who actually cared about women). Its potential to be an amazing book is just … and the way it’s wasted in Mo Xiang Tong Xiu’s hands because she just can’t view lgbt men as people other than something to salivate over and use for her own sexual satisfaction is too frustrating. Yes, these scenes made up about 10-15% of the book (and the horrifying extras; don’t read), but they were enough to completely throw me off, disgust me, and realize that as much as the plot, characters, and everything else in this book is written with such care, the story isn’t meant for lgbt people (or like … normal people) like me to enjoy. It’s for that gross niche audience: fujoshi and bl lovers. I don’t understand it; I don’t understand what makes that type of “romance” enjoyable -- why can’t these people enjoy a non-disturbing romance between two men?
It’s just so disappointing.
Because there’s just no way I can fully describe my frustration and disappointment, fine, I’ll move on. I don’t know if it was the translation (which is unofficial. There’s no real English translation for this novel, so I had to go through fan translations -- which, unfortunately, are also done by fetishists) or the actual writing by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu, but the book reads stilted and awkward. It’s one of those books that’s more dialogue than prose, but there aren’t even dialogue tags or beats! Maybe it’s the style that I’m not used to. Mo Xiang Tong Xiu also doesn’t seem to trust her audience to understand hints from text or dialogue, because she feels the need to explain everything. We understand what lying is, we promise (“Jin Ling clearly didn’t see Wen Ning and was making it up to distract Jiang Cheng so he would leave, etc., etc.” ← obviously not word for word).
Now, there’s lots to love about the book, too. The themes are amazing: challenge what you’re being taught and question who’s teaching you; always question your own choices constantly; how the younger generation can carry the intolerances of the older one, but how they also can be guided in other directions; how to deal when family and loved ones don’t have the same values/don’t think the same way you do -- and how do you continue to love them when they turn their backs on you?
Mo Xiang Tong Xiu also is a master of characterization and character arcs. And definitely plot twists. A big, big problem though is how she treats women -- lmao, which is a large problem with fujoshi in general. All of the women have tiny roles and are fridged, weak, and without fail die tragically. It’s pathetic.
Without making this like a dissertation, I’ll just sum it all up. Stick with the drama and other adaptations, especially since the drama takes a lot of the dialogue directly from the novel. Look up specific scenes if you really want to, but honestly? The sweet romance of the tv drama will make you feel so much more than the (non-con) sex in the book.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Gore and Rape
Moderate: Homophobia
Minor: Ableism and Incest
note: noncon and rape is, lmao, only vilified if between men and women; treated as normal and even “””romantic””” when between two men ………….; but also: fetishization, gross stereotypes about gay/bi men, such as them having 0 self control, being sexually aggressive & seme/uke stereotypes come the last few chapters + extrasjinguangyao's review against another edition
adventurous
emotional
funny
mysterious
- Plot- or character-driven? N/A
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.75
Is it even necessary to write this review? All the amazing features of this novel have already been said. I'm going to do it anyways, because I intend on being critical as well. I'm currently on my second reading of MDZS (I've seen most of CQL, all of the donghua and all of the manhua).
Themes: 9
Queer Representation: 7
Writing Quality: 8
Enjoyment: 10
Comedy: 9
Character development: 10 (2 for women)
Romance: 10
Slowburn: 100
Angst: 100
Let's start with the positives for those who have yet to read it. The writing is wonderful. It always kept me guessing, especially with the time skips. If you enjoy novels that you will appreciate even more on a second reading, this one is for you! So many twists and turns that re-contextualize the story every time. It leads to a truly rewarding experience. The writing in general is a lot of fun. The author knows how to balance the humorous and dark tones without making a scene seem tonally inappropriate. MXTX uses a lot of Chinese literary references throughout the novel, which are enjoyable even to those (like myself) who don't speak the language and haven't read much Chinese literature. I don't know how she does it but she knows how to balance the shameless, funny scenes and the dark, tense scenes perfectly.
The romance is also good. For those who enjoy fanfiction tags and trope descriptions here are a few: rivals? or idiots to lovers, major character death, love interest falls in love first, SLOWBURNthey confess around chapter 80-90 of the main 113 chapter novel , long separations, angst, NSFW, devoted love interest, mystery, first love, xianxia, cultivation, historical, etc.
It is VERY slowburn, which I personally enjoy torturing myself with. It is done very well, their dynamic matches perfectly with the themes of balancing good and evil, reputation, etc. Their romance isn't an addition to the story later, it is woven into the very themes. The misunderstandings aren't unreasonable (as a lot of novels rely on the misunderstanding trope in very unrealistic ways). You can clearly tell WHY they care about each other, WHY they love each other and it makes their confession very rewarding.
The comedy is GREAT. Personally, I enjoy the historical homophobic jokes (as a lesbian myself). Wei Wuxian is incredibly shameless and funny. It makes it easier to get through the angst and dark portions of the novel. If you're someone who will subconsciously put off novels when they get too depressing (like me), this one will be easier to get through. I enjoy watching Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian be incredibly shameless and torment the straight characters. :)
The villains are just... *chef's kiss*. As you can tell, I am a Jin Guangyao enjoyer. Even beside him, the other villains are amazing. Wen Ruohan is powerful and intimidating, Su She is pathetic but well written, Jin Guangyao is perfect and complex, and Xue Yang is tragic and complicated. If you're a villain gay (as I am), there is plenty of great content for you here.
Now onto the negatives. I'd like to preface that I might sound harsh, but these negatives are something that have not affected my deep love for this novel.
First, I would say that the women in this novel are unfortunately poorly written. This has become less of an issue with TGCF as she has improved a lot, but it is a bit of an eye sore in MDZS. She can not seem to write a three-dimensional female character to save her life. Their character completely depends on how they interact with the men in this story. If they are unable to contribute anything else to the men in the story, they die. I mean really. The death toll for women in this novel is insane. I think maybe three made it to the end? MianMian and the prostitutes are the only ones that come to mind.
Jiang Yanli is sweet, don't get me wrong, but her entire character relies upon being a sister archetype. How can she serve her brothers' character development? How can she provide their moral core? How can her death affect them? In the end, her death was not hers, but her brothers. How sad for them that she died! But what does it truly say about her as a character? Nothing. Not to be rude (because a lot of MDZS stans become incredibly angry if you criticize a character) but she served soup, was a sister archetype, and then died. This is not a three dimensional character. I struggle so much to think of a single complex female character in this novel. There is no excuse for MXTX. She's a woman!
Second, sorry to be an anti, but the r*pe fetish is extremely tasteless. Before the 30 year old pro-ship fandom moms break down my doors screaming "fiction doesn't affect reality!" (it does), I am someone who enjoys dark fiction. For f*cks sake, my favorite novel is Exquisite Corpse. I know how to critically consume media! Fetishizing r*pe is extremely tasteless and disgusting. It doesn't help that this is a gay novel. R*pe and predatory behaviors have been wrongfully associated with gay men for decades. Writing other characters to view them as predatory (everyone in the novel who hates Mo Xuanyu for being "predatory" and "inc*stuous" when he wasn't) and then actually making them into r*pe is just so homophobic it's unreal.
Other than that, I think this novel is generally perfect. It happens to be my favorite MXTX novel, even though TGCF has more quality writing. The themes are beautiful and woven throughout the entire story. Everything foreshadows something in the future (The whirlpool scene foreshadowing how everyone will act during the Guanyin Temple scene) so well. The nonlinear storytelling was an amazing choice for this style of writing and she clearly knows how to use it effectively.
Aside from the predatory r*pe fetishism in this novel, I think she wrote a wonderful representation of queerness. Their confession isn't the final point of them understanding their identity. Their "coming out" isn't for anyone but themselves. It's personal, not perfect, and not the final culmination of their identity (as a lot of straight people thing it is). They don't need everyone's approval. They would've confessed without others there anyways. It is just very refreshing to see a gay novel where a confession or coming out is not focused on the straight people's reactions.
Overall, the romance is amazing, representation is generally good, amazing imagery and literary references, great storytelling and use of foreshadowing, etc. It's a truly amazing novel that should be consumed critically. Authors are not gods, they are not impervious to criticism. Keep that in mind when you read MXTX novels, and cnovels in general.
Themes: 9
Queer Representation: 7
Writing Quality: 8
Enjoyment: 10
Comedy: 9
Character development: 10 (2 for women)
Romance: 10
Slowburn: 100
Angst: 100
Let's start with the positives for those who have yet to read it. The writing is wonderful. It always kept me guessing, especially with the time skips. If you enjoy novels that you will appreciate even more on a second reading, this one is for you! So many twists and turns that re-contextualize the story every time. It leads to a truly rewarding experience. The writing in general is a lot of fun. The author knows how to balance the humorous and dark tones without making a scene seem tonally inappropriate. MXTX uses a lot of Chinese literary references throughout the novel, which are enjoyable even to those (like myself) who don't speak the language and haven't read much Chinese literature. I don't know how she does it but she knows how to balance the shameless, funny scenes and the dark, tense scenes perfectly.
The romance is also good. For those who enjoy fanfiction tags and trope descriptions here are a few: rivals? or idiots to lovers, major character death, love interest falls in love first, SLOWBURN
It is VERY slowburn, which I personally enjoy torturing myself with. It is done very well, their dynamic matches perfectly with the themes of balancing good and evil, reputation, etc. Their romance isn't an addition to the story later, it is woven into the very themes. The misunderstandings aren't unreasonable (as a lot of novels rely on the misunderstanding trope in very unrealistic ways). You can clearly tell WHY they care about each other, WHY they love each other and it makes their confession very rewarding.
The comedy is GREAT. Personally, I enjoy the historical homophobic jokes (as a lesbian myself). Wei Wuxian is incredibly shameless and funny. It makes it easier to get through the angst and dark portions of the novel. If you're someone who will subconsciously put off novels when they get too depressing (like me), this one will be easier to get through. I enjoy watching Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian be incredibly shameless and torment the straight characters. :)
The villains are just... *chef's kiss*. As you can tell, I am a Jin Guangyao enjoyer. Even beside him, the other villains are amazing. Wen Ruohan is powerful and intimidating, Su She is pathetic but well written, Jin Guangyao is perfect and complex, and Xue Yang is tragic and complicated. If you're a villain gay (as I am), there is plenty of great content for you here.
Now onto the negatives. I'd like to preface that I might sound harsh, but these negatives are something that have not affected my deep love for this novel.
First, I would say that the women in this novel are unfortunately poorly written. This has become less of an issue with TGCF as she has improved a lot, but it is a bit of an eye sore in MDZS. She can not seem to write a three-dimensional female character to save her life. Their character completely depends on how they interact with the men in this story. If they are unable to contribute anything else to the men in the story, they die. I mean really. The death toll for women in this novel is insane. I think maybe three made it to the end? MianMian and the prostitutes are the only ones that come to mind.
Jiang Yanli is sweet, don't get me wrong, but her entire character relies upon being a sister archetype. How can she serve her brothers' character development? How can she provide their moral core? How can her death affect them? In the end, her death was not hers, but her brothers. How sad for them that she died! But what does it truly say about her as a character? Nothing. Not to be rude (because a lot of MDZS stans become incredibly angry if you criticize a character) but she served soup, was a sister archetype, and then died. This is not a three dimensional character. I struggle so much to think of a single complex female character in this novel. There is no excuse for MXTX. She's a woman!
Second, sorry to be an anti, but the r*pe fetish is extremely tasteless. Before the 30 year old pro-ship fandom moms break down my doors screaming "fiction doesn't affect reality!" (it does), I am someone who enjoys dark fiction. For f*cks sake, my favorite novel is Exquisite Corpse. I know how to critically consume media! Fetishizing r*pe is extremely tasteless and disgusting. It doesn't help that this is a gay novel. R*pe and predatory behaviors have been wrongfully associated with gay men for decades. Writing other characters to view them as predatory (everyone in the novel who hates Mo Xuanyu for being "predatory" and "inc*stuous" when he wasn't) and then actually making them into r*pe is just so homophobic it's unreal.
Other than that, I think this novel is generally perfect. It happens to be my favorite MXTX novel, even though TGCF has more quality writing. The themes are beautiful and woven throughout the entire story. Everything foreshadows something in the future (The whirlpool scene foreshadowing how everyone will act during the Guanyin Temple scene) so well. The nonlinear storytelling was an amazing choice for this style of writing and she clearly knows how to use it effectively.
Aside from the predatory r*pe fetishism in this novel, I think she wrote a wonderful representation of queerness. Their confession isn't the final point of them understanding their identity. Their "coming out" isn't for anyone but themselves. It's personal, not perfect, and not the final culmination of their identity (as a lot of straight people thing it is). They don't need everyone's approval. They would've confessed without others there anyways. It is just very refreshing to see a gay novel where a confession or coming out is not focused on the straight people's reactions.
Overall, the romance is amazing, representation is generally good, amazing imagery and literary references, great storytelling and use of foreshadowing, etc. It's a truly amazing novel that should be consumed critically. Authors are not gods, they are not impervious to criticism. Keep that in mind when you read MXTX novels, and cnovels in general.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Confinement, Cursing, Death, Physical abuse, Rape, Sexism, Sexual content, Violence, Blood, Grief, Death of parent, Murder, Abandonment, Alcohol, and War
Moderate: Homophobia, Incest, Mental illness, and Misogyny
Minor: Ableism
lycheehee's review against another edition
emotional
funny
mysterious
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.5
Content Warnings
Graphic: Torture, Violence, and Blood
Moderate: Sexual content
Minor: Ableism, Alcoholism, Homophobia, Incest, and Rape
spiritedfaraway's review against another edition
adventurous
emotional
hopeful
mysterious
reflective
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
5.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Alcoholism, Body horror, Child abuse, Cursing, Death, Emotional abuse, Genocide, Gore, Homophobia, Panic attacks/disorders, Physical abuse, Sexual content, Suicide, Torture, Violence, Blood, Medical content, Kidnapping, Grief, Medical trauma, Death of parent, and Murder
Moderate: Ableism, Self harm, and Sexual assault
Minor: Child death, Eating disorder, Incest, Rape, and Cannibalism
Sexually explicit scenes are in chapters chapter 95, chapter 111, and chapter 112 and those chapters can be easily skipped if you'd rather not read them. Also, work/death camp-like setting, very dubious consent, and corporal punishment.