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rubybastille's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
mysterious
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.5
This book spends more time than the first pondering big questions, which means the writing is often very beautiful. There’s also a lot of characters standing and looking out at landscapes while pondering said questions.
In this book, Paul has established his bloody empire and factions are beginning to conspire against him. His mother is so freaked out by what he and his sister have accomplished that she doesn’t even live on Arrakis anymore, and is mentioned an entire 3 times, I think? The threats should feel external, but because Paul knows the entire time what’s going to happen to him (and those he’s close to), it feels more internal. The danger, to a modern reader anyway, is less to Paul’s person and his empire than it is to the agency of everyone around him, as Paul makes decisions that change, or even end, their lives.
So…did Paul know about [spoiler redacted] while it was going on? Was there really no way to step off the path he seems to have hated so much? Did he ever face any external pressure to own up to his rock-solid prescience and maybe do things in a less horrific way from time to time?
I won’t be continuing with the Dune books, and reading up on what the series gets up to, I feel even more comfortable calling it here. As beautiful as the writing could be, I just didn’t enjoy having to ask the kinds of questions these themes make you want to ask. Paul has become a flawed protagonist who overlooks the agency of his supposed loved ones (not to mention an entire galaxy), believing he knows what’s best for them. Maybe it’s all Shakespearean tragedy but to me it’s just frustrating.
In this book, Paul has established his bloody empire and factions are beginning to conspire against him. His mother is so freaked out by what he and his sister have accomplished that she doesn’t even live on Arrakis anymore, and is mentioned an entire 3 times, I think? The threats should feel external, but because Paul knows the entire time what’s going to happen to him (and those he’s close to), it feels more internal. The danger, to a modern reader anyway, is less to Paul’s person and his empire than it is to the agency of everyone around him, as Paul makes decisions that change, or even end, their lives.
So…did Paul know about [spoiler redacted] while it was going on? Was there really no way to step off the path he seems to have hated so much? Did he ever face any external pressure to own up to his rock-solid prescience and maybe do things in a less horrific way from time to time?
I won’t be continuing with the Dune books, and reading up on what the series gets up to, I feel even more comfortable calling it here. As beautiful as the writing could be, I just didn’t enjoy having to ask the kinds of questions these themes make you want to ask. Paul has become a flawed protagonist who overlooks the agency of his supposed loved ones (not to mention an entire galaxy), believing he knows what’s best for them. Maybe it’s all Shakespearean tragedy but to me it’s just frustrating.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Ableism, Addiction, Drug abuse, and Death of parent
Minor: Incest
wickedgrumpy's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
emotional
mysterious
sad
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.25
What a tone shift from the first book! Honestly this one kind of went off the rails into unhinged territory in the second half. It was a very slow political machination start and then it turns into everything falling into place depending on who did the better job at plotting and scheming... Absolutely wild. I don't know how I feel about it fully but I'm going to think about it for a long time.
Content Warnings
Minor: Ableism, Addiction, Animal cruelty, Body horror, Body shaming, Child death, Confinement, Deadnaming, Death, Drug abuse, Drug use, Eating disorder, Fatphobia, Genocide, Incest, Infertility, Infidelity, Self harm, Sexual content, Suicidal thoughts, Suicide, Terminal illness, Toxic relationship, Violence, Medical content, Grief, Religious bigotry, Medical trauma, Abortion, Death of parent, Murder, Pregnancy, Fire/Fire injury, Gaslighting, Toxic friendship, Abandonment, Colonisation, Dysphoria, War, Injury/Injury detail, and Classism
megermoe's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
mysterious
reflective
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
The second novel in the dune series picked up much faster than the first, but still exposed the reader to even more of the world and its lore. The pacing worked very well alongside the vision driven plot lines. I felt as though I was guessing the entire time what future Paul was seeking throughout the novel. I did feel as though the big bad in this novel wasn’t as enjoyable as the first, nothing beats a sinister Harkonnen. I highly recommend reading these books in order.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Death of parent and Pregnancy
antarcticophile's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
emotional
mysterious
reflective
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.25
Content Warnings
Graphic: Death, Suicide, Grief, Death of parent, Murder, Pregnancy, and War
Moderate: Blood
owenwilsonbaby's review against another edition
dark
emotional
mysterious
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
3.5
‘I live in an apocalyptic dream. My steps fit into it so precisely that I fear most of all I will grow bored reliving the thing so exactly.’
Why was the end of Paul’s arc so filler-y? Some great character beats but this took me so long to read and frequently lost me along the way.
Why was the end of Paul’s arc so filler-y? Some great character beats but this took me so long to read and frequently lost me along the way.
Content Warnings
Moderate: Adult/minor relationship, Body horror, Child death, Incest, Infertility, Violence, Medical content, Grief, Death of parent, Murder, Pregnancy, Fire/Fire injury, Colonisation, War, and Injury/Injury detail
nyxlikesbook's review against another edition
challenging
dark
mysterious
reflective
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
Content Warnings
Graphic: Genocide, Grief, Murder, and War
Moderate: Addiction, Drug abuse, Drug use, Terminal illness, Religious bigotry, and Abortion
Minor: Adult/minor relationship and Death of parent
thebibutterfly's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
mysterious
sad
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
This was an interesting continuation of the previous book and a satisfying end, if a sad one. It was much stronger prose and tightly edited, which I appreciated. It was fascinating to see how an abundance of water affected the desert people and their culture. It was the tiny details that really sold this narrative and I appreciated the solid attempts to explain the systems and societies at work. The audiobook was well articulated, but I will have to buy paperbacks to dissect.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Death and Death of parent
Moderate: Infertility, Pregnancy, Dysphoria, and Injury/Injury detail
laura_nel13's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
reflective
sad
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
Content Warnings
Moderate: Death, Drug use, Infertility, Violence, Grief, Pregnancy, and War
Minor: Adult/minor relationship, Genocide, Incest, Slavery, and Death of parent
jelliclejules's review against another edition
adventurous
mysterious
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
Content Warnings
Graphic: Drug abuse, Violence, Murder, and Injury/Injury detail
Moderate: Ableism, Addiction, Xenophobia, Grief, Religious bigotry, Medical trauma, Death of parent, Pregnancy, War, and Classism
Minor: Incest, Infertility, and Suicide
roget's review against another edition
dark
reflective
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
There's so much going on here, and this review is full of spoilers, so skip it if you don't want it ruined for you.
1.) Paul's on about trying to disengage the jihad all of Dune 1 and, to an extent, 2. There's this path of "discrediting himself" that he talks about, but at the end, the path he takes is one that doesn't discredit himself?? Duncan's literally reflecting on how Paul's final actions establish him as a religious figurehead for the Fremen people.
2.) There's clearly a theme here about Paul having no power over his power, and being mostly just aware of the flow of time but ultimately just as tossed about by it as everyone else. I get that. But also, he's so resistant to changing and stepping off the path in case one of the worse visions happen that he lets an incomprehensible genocide play out to avoid a somehow even worse incomprehensible genocide? Am I getting that right? There was no point at which he might've given an order to "no, leave that planet alone?" or "no, don't kill all those people?" That just...wouldn't have worked? What's Herbert trying to say, here? That certain pressures and rhetoric are unstoppably destructive?
3.) Chani and Irulan deserved better, but Chani deserved way, way better.
4.) The incest thing was extremely ick. As was Herbert sexualizing the crap out of a fourteen/fifteen year old girl's body. I don't give a fig about the acrobatics the story performs to make Alia a grown-up inside. This stuff isn't thought-up in a vacuum, and therefore it absolutely merits some major side eye. That alone knocked my enjoyment of this novel down multiple stars.
5.) Chani should've been given a voice to speak to Paul's decision making on her and their children's behalf. There was opportunity for good conflict there, and it floated out the window because Chani's reduced to an Ophelia, here.
And that's the center of the biggest issue for me--once again, we have all significant women characters ending up fridged or holding the short end of the stick. And Paul who I'd assumed would fall from power (based on how everyone talks about this book), ends up valorized by the very people he manipulated in the first book.
I'd find his fear of other futures more convincing if the text gave us more solidity and detail about those futures, but most of it is kept rather vague, and the only points that are expanded are the more personal, AU fates of Chani and their children. I'm just a little ?????
Like, what's the take, here? Poor Paul, he couldn't help but do an intergalactic genocide?
And to be clear--I was completely prepared and ready to witness some Shakespearean-level tragedy. I was not expecting a happy ending for anyone. But the sad ending I got was so disappointing, and there was no justice in it re: Paul, the empire, or the Fremen people. By the way this is talked about, I was expecting some fire post-colonial or anti-imperial commentary, and I was just underwhelmed on that front.
Duncan Idaho (Alia plot points WILDLY aside) was the main high point. That was interesting, and his coming back to himself was cool.
1.) Paul's on about trying to disengage the jihad all of Dune 1 and, to an extent, 2. There's this path of "discrediting himself" that he talks about, but at the end, the path he takes is one that doesn't discredit himself?? Duncan's literally reflecting on how Paul's final actions establish him as a religious figurehead for the Fremen people.
2.) There's clearly a theme here about Paul having no power over his power, and being mostly just aware of the flow of time but ultimately just as tossed about by it as everyone else. I get that. But also, he's so resistant to changing and stepping off the path in case one of the worse visions happen that he lets an incomprehensible genocide play out to avoid a somehow even worse incomprehensible genocide? Am I getting that right? There was no point at which he might've given an order to "no, leave that planet alone?" or "no, don't kill all those people?" That just...wouldn't have worked? What's Herbert trying to say, here? That certain pressures and rhetoric are unstoppably destructive?
3.) Chani and Irulan deserved better, but Chani deserved way, way better.
4.) The incest thing was extremely ick. As was Herbert sexualizing the crap out of a fourteen/fifteen year old girl's body. I don't give a fig about the acrobatics the story performs to make Alia a grown-up inside. This stuff isn't thought-up in a vacuum, and therefore it absolutely merits some major side eye. That alone knocked my enjoyment of this novel down multiple stars.
5.) Chani should've been given a voice to speak to Paul's decision making on her and their children's behalf. There was opportunity for good conflict there, and it floated out the window because Chani's reduced to an Ophelia, here.
And that's the center of the biggest issue for me--once again, we have all significant women characters ending up fridged or holding the short end of the stick. And Paul who I'd assumed would fall from power (based on how everyone talks about this book), ends up valorized by the very people he manipulated in the first book.
I'd find his fear of other futures more convincing if the text gave us more solidity and detail about those futures, but most of it is kept rather vague, and the only points that are expanded are the more personal, AU fates of Chani and their children. I'm just a little ?????
Like, what's the take, here? Poor Paul, he couldn't help but do an intergalactic genocide?
And to be clear--I was completely prepared and ready to witness some Shakespearean-level tragedy. I was not expecting a happy ending for anyone. But the sad ending I got was so disappointing, and there was no justice in it re: Paul, the empire, or the Fremen people. By the way this is talked about, I was expecting some fire post-colonial or anti-imperial commentary, and I was just underwhelmed on that front.
Duncan Idaho (Alia plot points WILDLY aside) was the main high point. That was interesting, and his coming back to himself was cool.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Addiction, Adult/minor relationship, Death, Drug abuse, Genocide, Incest, Infertility, Misogyny, Pedophilia, Sexism, Suicide, Violence, Death of parent, Pregnancy, and Colonisation