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katymaryreads's review against another edition
challenging
emotional
reflective
sad
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
tklilley's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
informative
reflective
sad
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
kylieminogue's review against another edition
dark
emotional
reflective
sad
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
The most tragic novel, so important. The prose was a bit off for me though. No other notes.
jmmstp's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
sad
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
jdscott50's review against another edition
emotional
informative
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
5.0
Picking up from the ending of There, There, a young man has to heal from his wounds, both physically and spiritually. After the shooting at the Pow Wow, he is left with wounds that look like stars. We then travel back in time, where his perseverance and survival match the story of his people.
We find people who are constantly tested by history. The intent to eradicate the Indigenous people of the United States has a long history. Orange shares story after story. In some of these stories, it would seem like a bloodline would be lost, yet it still exists. The continuing to exist is the fight.
“Citizenship being granted will be a kind of victory too because you will not have died in any of the wars or massacres, you will have survived starvation and relocation, indoctrination and assimilation, you will have lasted long enough that they had to say that you too, our longtime, once mortal enemy, even you are one of us, even if its meaning, its rights, won’t come for decades, the seed will have begun there, in the year you were born.”
The book reminded me a great deal of Council of Dolls, which came out last year. I enjoyed the back-and-forth between the struggles of the present and the struggles of the past. It seems there is never freedom from struggle, but that struggle shows a people still alive and moving into the future despite these odds. This is the victory.
Favorite Passages:
“All the Indian children who were ever Indian children never stopped being Indian children, and went on to have not nits but Indian children, whose Indian children went on to have Indian children, whose Indian children became American Indians, whose American Indian children became Native Americans, whose Native American children would call themselves Natives, or Indigenous, or NDNS, or the names of their sovereign nations, or the names of their tribes, and all too often would be told they weren’t the right kind of Indians to be considered real ones by too many Americans taught in schools their whole lives that the only real kinds of Indians were those long-gone Thanksgiving Indians who loved the pilgrims as if to death.”
“he will recognize you as Indian and ask where you’re from. The question will throw you at first, because you’re from Oakland, so you want to say you’re from here, but you don’t know what here means for a moment, did it mean modern times, did it mean Oakland, did it mean America? And where would you be from if you were a real Indian? Oklahoma? You will know that’s not true, that Indians were from every single corner of the country—beyond the country. You will have read about hundreds of tribes, each with their own languages and customs and creation stories. You will want to tell him that you are Cheyenne, that that is where you are from, that Cheyennes once, up near the Great Lakes, were agricultural people, and then followed the buffalo before running for their lives like the buffalo, and that your people, they were Cheyenne wherever they went, but instead you just say the word Cheyenne, with your hand over your heart, to which he will say the word Lakota with his hand over his heart. You will laugh at each other’s hand-to-heart gestures.”
“Citizenship being granted will be a kind of victory too, because you will not have died in any of the wars or massacres, you will have survived starvation and relocation, indoctrination and assimilation, you will have lasted long enough that they had to say that you too, our longtime, once mortal enemy, even you are one of us, even if its meaning, its rights, won’t come for decades, the seed will have begun there, in the year you were born.”
“white people who want so bad to be on the right side of history they forget they’re inevitably on the white side of history.”
“I’m being asked to understand that with some people you love, they just won’t end up being a part of your life. I’m being asked a question that it seems I can answer only by living.”
We find people who are constantly tested by history. The intent to eradicate the Indigenous people of the United States has a long history. Orange shares story after story. In some of these stories, it would seem like a bloodline would be lost, yet it still exists. The continuing to exist is the fight.
“Citizenship being granted will be a kind of victory too because you will not have died in any of the wars or massacres, you will have survived starvation and relocation, indoctrination and assimilation, you will have lasted long enough that they had to say that you too, our longtime, once mortal enemy, even you are one of us, even if its meaning, its rights, won’t come for decades, the seed will have begun there, in the year you were born.”
The book reminded me a great deal of Council of Dolls, which came out last year. I enjoyed the back-and-forth between the struggles of the present and the struggles of the past. It seems there is never freedom from struggle, but that struggle shows a people still alive and moving into the future despite these odds. This is the victory.
Favorite Passages:
“All the Indian children who were ever Indian children never stopped being Indian children, and went on to have not nits but Indian children, whose Indian children went on to have Indian children, whose Indian children became American Indians, whose American Indian children became Native Americans, whose Native American children would call themselves Natives, or Indigenous, or NDNS, or the names of their sovereign nations, or the names of their tribes, and all too often would be told they weren’t the right kind of Indians to be considered real ones by too many Americans taught in schools their whole lives that the only real kinds of Indians were those long-gone Thanksgiving Indians who loved the pilgrims as if to death.”
“he will recognize you as Indian and ask where you’re from. The question will throw you at first, because you’re from Oakland, so you want to say you’re from here, but you don’t know what here means for a moment, did it mean modern times, did it mean Oakland, did it mean America? And where would you be from if you were a real Indian? Oklahoma? You will know that’s not true, that Indians were from every single corner of the country—beyond the country. You will have read about hundreds of tribes, each with their own languages and customs and creation stories. You will want to tell him that you are Cheyenne, that that is where you are from, that Cheyennes once, up near the Great Lakes, were agricultural people, and then followed the buffalo before running for their lives like the buffalo, and that your people, they were Cheyenne wherever they went, but instead you just say the word Cheyenne, with your hand over your heart, to which he will say the word Lakota with his hand over his heart. You will laugh at each other’s hand-to-heart gestures.”
“Citizenship being granted will be a kind of victory too, because you will not have died in any of the wars or massacres, you will have survived starvation and relocation, indoctrination and assimilation, you will have lasted long enough that they had to say that you too, our longtime, once mortal enemy, even you are one of us, even if its meaning, its rights, won’t come for decades, the seed will have begun there, in the year you were born.”
“white people who want so bad to be on the right side of history they forget they’re inevitably on the white side of history.”
“I’m being asked to understand that with some people you love, they just won’t end up being a part of your life. I’m being asked a question that it seems I can answer only by living.”
sewfrench's review against another edition
4.0
Wow, this author continues to powerfully capture the Indigenous American experience. This isn’t a book for entertainment, but for understanding history and empathizing with the enduring struggles of its people.
lguz's review against another edition
dark
emotional
hopeful
reflective
sad
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
chrisislit's review against another edition
emotional
inspiring
reflective
sad
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.75
alicevae's review against another edition
4.0
I read There There sometime in 2023, and kept getting slightly confused whether occurrences referenced in this book had been described in this book or that book. It's kind of fun how they are related. I think I like this one better, and I don't think you need to read that one first. I especially liked how exercise is described both as an addiction and as an effective tool for overcoming addictions. I felt like I learned a lot. I also had to check the family tree a lot of times.