monbie's review against another edition
reflective
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
3.75
tvatnick's review against another edition
1.0
What started out as incredible world building and an interesting premise devolved into long boring asides by someone who desperately wishes she was a white male philosopher in the 1800s or whenever it was. This series had potential to be great and ended up being extremely racist by omission, to the point that I was infuriated. It was terrible and I don't recommend it to anyone.
khia's review against another edition
challenging
dark
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
settingshadow's review against another edition
4.0
I think I really summed it up when I explained: "it reads like assigned reading for an undergrad philosophy course. The really cool one, with the professor everyone adores, but still."
Palmer has always been clearly been using her work as a vehicle for important cultural conversations, but that was paired with awe-inspiring world-building in Too Like the Lightning and a careful deconstruction of all of the holes in her world in Seven Surrenders. In The Will to Battle, nearly 300 or 350 pages are devoted entirely to dialogue, about half of which is between the narrator and either (a) the reader, (b) Hobbes or (c) other dead people as imagined by the narrator. It's important work about what it means to be a civilization, how to balance improving this world versus dreaming of bigger ones and what we as citizens in a global society owe each other. I think it may also be doing work holding up either end of the quartet in which it's placed (time will tell), but it's not really functional as a stand-alone novel.
Palmer has always been clearly been using her work as a vehicle for important cultural conversations, but that was paired with awe-inspiring world-building in Too Like the Lightning and a careful deconstruction of all of the holes in her world in Seven Surrenders. In The Will to Battle, nearly 300 or 350 pages are devoted entirely to dialogue, about half of which is between the narrator and either (a) the reader, (b) Hobbes or (c) other dead people as imagined by the narrator. It's important work about what it means to be a civilization, how to balance improving this world versus dreaming of bigger ones and what we as citizens in a global society owe each other. I think it may also be doing work holding up either end of the quartet in which it's placed (time will tell), but it's not really functional as a stand-alone novel.
katjonzz's review against another edition
challenging
dark
mysterious
reflective
tense
slow-paced
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
sascham's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
reflective
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
5.0
andrewfrancis's review against another edition
4.0
I'm really torn between three and a half and four stars, but since I'm super invested in the series now, I'll stick with four. I also did not review the earlier books too much, so I'm putting a bunch of things here.
First of all, I love Mycroft as a narrator. He's a very interesting (if weak-willed, to an extent) character. He's very emotionally reactionary, though by the end of this book, it's clear that that is because of outside influences on his character (both by JEDD Mason and Bridger), so I can't fault him for being a little fucked in the head. And, speaking of, it was very jarring that his hallucinations were not written out (censored, via in-world editing) from this book as they supposedly were from the previous two (one of the many secondary narrators--the Anonymous--discusses leaving those parts in for the sake of "historical" accuracy). It felt ill-fitting when juxtaposed with the earlier books, but given the nature of the narration (written as a man retelling his own history that is then edited and censored by his political superiors) makes sense enough that I can forgive it. I would've liked consistency on it either way (though the first book was confusing and complex enough without Apollo's many appearances).
This book was my least favorite of the three. I still enjoyed it immensely, but three books in and the war only starts at the end. It would've been a little easier to deal with, I think, if it had started at least partway through this book.
It's also a little weird to me that there is a very obvious reliance on the Iliad considering I'm hoping the end of that plot doesn't turn out as predictable as it seems.
I've become increasingly annoyed by the character of Madame. She was intriguing at first, but now it's incredibly unclear why she has so much influence over so many major political players, especially MASON, who was said to have only loved Apollo. But he and the King of Spain seem trapped by her mystical golden vagina and I just don't think that was well-constructed at all.
This book is just as heavy on philosophy as the others, which has started to grate me a little by this book. I don't have an issue with it in principle, but it felt like the references were hedging out the actual plot, which felt dragging in this book. I again felt like the war needed to have started by the middle of this book, if not sooner, and it didn't. It was just a lot more philosophy and build-up. It almost gives the impression that Palmer wants to write about war without actually writing about war. I hope not, since I think this could be really interesting in the next book, but it had better speed up exponentially to keep my interest.
The characters of this and the earlier books are really fascinating to me--Mycroft especially, but also JEDD Mason. JEDD is a personal favorite. I enjoyed the insights into Martin Guildbreaker in this book as well. I got less interested in the dynamic between Julia and Dominic, and I lost my love of Carlyle (mostly because they all seemed so stagnant, compared to the others who developed). They started to feel more like plot devices that actual characters enveloped in the greater story. I also felt that Thisbe lost all literary intrigue with her new developments. The revelation about the entire Bash was fantastic, and I enjoy Sniper's new developments especially, but Thisbe's fell a little flat for me--though her build-up was also a little much in comparison, which just makes it worse. I'm also disappointed in Saladin's fate, but I guess we can't win them all.
That Apollo and the Major are my absolute faves will definitely help keep my interest for the next book even though Apollo is not and has never been alive for the series. I love that he still plays such a significant role in it all, as does Utopia. I do hope that the Major's companion makes more of an appearance in the next book, but I also hope the Iliad does not foreshadow what happens to him or the Major. I'll be exceptionally upset if that's the case, and disappointed by the lack of originality.
Overall I'm still very much looking forward to the next installment, but I was more disappointed in the slow pace of this book. The ending makes up for it, and I was personally offended when the book ended because I didn't want it to, so I can't complain all that much. The characters and world-building are too interesting and fantastic to me even if the plot itself doesn't always quite keep up. Here's hoping we get there (finally)--after 3 books of promising a great systemic overthrow--when the next book comes out.
First of all, I love Mycroft as a narrator. He's a very interesting (if weak-willed, to an extent) character. He's very emotionally reactionary, though by the end of this book, it's clear that that is because of outside influences on his character (both by JEDD Mason and Bridger), so I can't fault him for being a little fucked in the head. And, speaking of, it was very jarring that his hallucinations were not written out (censored, via in-world editing) from this book as they supposedly were from the previous two (one of the many secondary narrators--the Anonymous--discusses leaving those parts in for the sake of "historical" accuracy). It felt ill-fitting when juxtaposed with the earlier books, but given the nature of the narration (written as a man retelling his own history that is then edited and censored by his political superiors) makes sense enough that I can forgive it. I would've liked consistency on it either way (though the first book was confusing and complex enough without Apollo's many appearances).
This book was my least favorite of the three. I still enjoyed it immensely, but three books in and the war only starts at the end. It would've been a little easier to deal with, I think, if it had started at least partway through this book.
It's also a little weird to me that there is a very obvious reliance on the Iliad considering
Spoiler
the two sides are driven now by Achilles and Apollo. Even though in the Greek myth, Apollo kills Achilles but Apollo is dead to start with in this series. Still. Achilles is only sort of alive, to that end.I've become increasingly annoyed by the character of Madame. She was intriguing at first, but now it's incredibly unclear why she has so much influence over so many major political players, especially MASON, who was said to have only loved Apollo. But he and the King of Spain seem trapped by her mystical golden vagina and I just don't think that was well-constructed at all.
This book is just as heavy on philosophy as the others, which has started to grate me a little by this book. I don't have an issue with it in principle, but it felt like the references were hedging out the actual plot, which felt dragging in this book. I again felt like the war needed to have started by the middle of this book, if not sooner, and it didn't. It was just a lot more philosophy and build-up. It almost gives the impression that Palmer wants to write about war without actually writing about war. I hope not, since I think this could be really interesting in the next book, but it had better speed up exponentially to keep my interest.
The characters of this and the earlier books are really fascinating to me--Mycroft especially, but also JEDD Mason. JEDD is a personal favorite. I enjoyed the insights into Martin Guildbreaker in this book as well. I got less interested in the dynamic between Julia and Dominic, and I lost my love of Carlyle (mostly because they all seemed so stagnant, compared to the others who developed). They started to feel more like plot devices that actual characters enveloped in the greater story. I also felt that Thisbe lost all literary intrigue with her new developments. The revelation about the entire Bash was fantastic, and I enjoy Sniper's new developments especially, but Thisbe's fell a little flat for me--though her build-up was also a little much in comparison, which just makes it worse. I'm also disappointed in Saladin's fate, but I guess we can't win them all.
That Apollo and the Major are my absolute faves will definitely help keep my interest for the next book even though Apollo is not and has never been alive for the series. I love that he still plays such a significant role in it all, as does Utopia. I do hope that the Major's companion makes more of an appearance in the next book, but I also hope the Iliad does not foreshadow what happens to him or the Major. I'll be exceptionally upset if that's the case, and disappointed by the lack of originality.
Overall I'm still very much looking forward to the next installment, but I was more disappointed in the slow pace of this book. The ending makes up for it, and I was personally offended when the book ended because I didn't want it to, so I can't complain all that much. The characters and world-building are too interesting and fantastic to me even if the plot itself doesn't always quite keep up. Here's hoping we get there (finally)--after 3 books of promising a great systemic overthrow--when the next book comes out.
quiraang's review against another edition
4.0
An exhausting read, but worth the effort. Plots, sub plots, political shenanigans, philosophy, religion, new gods, Ancient Greek gods, super science, sex, love, and a story narrator who is self-admitedly insane. Fantastic stuff. Now I just have to wait until 2019 for the final part.
lukre's review
5.0
the end of this book! I mean I knew it would end like this, but still!
also Emperor and Achilles are just awesome! I could read a whole book with just the two of them talkig and being sarcastic and darkly humorous with unsuspecting bystanders.
And man, does Ada Palmer know how to write. This book doesn't talk down at its reader and it doesn't underestimate their intellect either. There are moments when you are encouraged (by lack of explanations) to dig for yourself, and then there are moments when the explanation is given (since it is important). She is the queen of pacing. Just when you think that things are too calm or too esoteric, something happens that wakes you up or sparks more discussion.... she is just AMAZING! I want more..... so I'm waiting for buddy to finish this and then onto Perhaps the Stars! woooohoooo