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icarusandthesun's review against another edition
dark
mysterious
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.0
dune—but it felt like a cheap knock-off.
there are some bigs twists in this book that should've thrown you off, made you put the book down for a few seconds to comprehend what just happened; should've, but it didn't.
even though the book ends on chani's death and the main character PAUL ATREIDES' LITERALLY DISAPPEARING/DYING, i was left more confused than shocked and unimpressed, too.
it was the writing, mostly. i don't know where frank herbert went wrong (& perhaps i am the problem), but the narration was dry and all the 'political intrigue' a yap-fest.
how the conflict was resolved in the end felt rushed and a little silly.
wasn't a fan.
there are some bigs twists in this book that should've thrown you off, made you put the book down for a few seconds to comprehend what just happened; should've, but it didn't.
it was the writing, mostly. i don't know where frank herbert went wrong (& perhaps i am the problem), but the narration was dry and all the 'political intrigue' a yap-fest.
how the conflict was resolved in the end felt rushed and a little silly.
wasn't a fan.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Body horror, Death, Drug use, Violence, Religious bigotry, and Murder
Moderate: Pregnancy, War, and Injury/Injury detail
Minor: Blood and Medical content
trvs49's review against another edition
challenging
dark
mysterious
reflective
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.5
This is a more philosophical, character-driven entry in the Dune series. The elements of adventure, new worlds, and sci-fi take a back seat to the intense character interactions, politics, and schemes. Paul's struggle for control over the universe and the events of the world is the main focus and is highly engaging throughout. Suspicions, schemes, plots within plots, and the reality of a universe ruled by Paul with his Sister at his side as pseudo-gods all culminate in a fantastic narrative with a satisfying end.
Paul's character development is impressive and genuinely satisfying, and it stays true to the character. However, where this book lacks is in the writing of the female characters, which is considerably weaker, although Alia does present as a really cool, complex character. The incest stuff and the age gap between her and some of the characters, as well as the stuff about her dad being her lover, are not necessary, in my opinion.Also, Irulan just being super in love with Paul, although it is alluded to early in the book. I feel it doesn't get enough build-up and attention to make it understandable and believable, especially since she is supposed to be Bene Gesserit but throws away all her loyalties after he dies.
Paul's character development is impressive and genuinely satisfying, and it stays true to the character. However, where this book lacks is in the writing of the female characters, which is considerably weaker, although Alia does present as a really cool, complex character. The incest stuff and the age gap between her and some of the characters, as well as the stuff about her dad being her lover, are not necessary, in my opinion.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Ableism, Adult/minor relationship, Child death, Death, Drug abuse, Drug use, Genocide, Incest, Infertility, Suicidal thoughts, Suicide, Violence, Grief, Suicide attempt, Murder, Pregnancy, Fire/Fire injury, War, and Injury/Injury detail
amachonis's review against another edition
adventurous
tense
medium-paced
3.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Violence
Moderate: Death
jelliclejules's review against another edition
adventurous
mysterious
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
Content Warnings
Graphic: Drug abuse, Violence, Murder, and Injury/Injury detail
Moderate: Ableism, Addiction, Xenophobia, Grief, Religious bigotry, Medical trauma, Death of parent, Pregnancy, War, and Classism
Minor: Incest, Infertility, and Suicide
sarah_tani's review against another edition
dark
mysterious
reflective
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
Content Warnings
Moderate: Adult/minor relationship, Death, Drug use, Genocide, Incest, Infertility, Suicide, Violence, Grief, Murder, Pregnancy, and War
aileron's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.5
Content Warnings
Graphic: Drug use, Infertility, Pregnancy, and Injury/Injury detail
Moderate: Death, Incest, Suicidal thoughts, Suicide, Violence, Grief, Murder, Fire/Fire injury, and Colonisation
Minor: Ableism, Child death, Genocide, Religious bigotry, and War
roget's review against another edition
dark
reflective
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
There's so much going on here, and this review is full of spoilers, so skip it if you don't want it ruined for you.
1.) Paul's on about trying to disengage the jihad all of Dune 1 and, to an extent, 2. There's this path of "discrediting himself" that he talks about, but at the end, the path he takes is one that doesn't discredit himself?? Duncan's literally reflecting on how Paul's final actions establish him as a religious figurehead for the Fremen people.
2.) There's clearly a theme here about Paul having no power over his power, and being mostly just aware of the flow of time but ultimately just as tossed about by it as everyone else. I get that. But also, he's so resistant to changing and stepping off the path in case one of the worse visions happen that he lets an incomprehensible genocide play out to avoid a somehow even worse incomprehensible genocide? Am I getting that right? There was no point at which he might've given an order to "no, leave that planet alone?" or "no, don't kill all those people?" That just...wouldn't have worked? What's Herbert trying to say, here? That certain pressures and rhetoric are unstoppably destructive?
3.) Chani and Irulan deserved better, but Chani deserved way, way better.
4.) The incest thing was extremely ick. As was Herbert sexualizing the crap out of a fourteen/fifteen year old girl's body. I don't give a fig about the acrobatics the story performs to make Alia a grown-up inside. This stuff isn't thought-up in a vacuum, and therefore it absolutely merits some major side eye. That alone knocked my enjoyment of this novel down multiple stars.
5.) Chani should've been given a voice to speak to Paul's decision making on her and their children's behalf. There was opportunity for good conflict there, and it floated out the window because Chani's reduced to an Ophelia, here.
And that's the center of the biggest issue for me--once again, we have all significant women characters ending up fridged or holding the short end of the stick. And Paul who I'd assumed would fall from power (based on how everyone talks about this book), ends up valorized by the very people he manipulated in the first book.
I'd find his fear of other futures more convincing if the text gave us more solidity and detail about those futures, but most of it is kept rather vague, and the only points that are expanded are the more personal, AU fates of Chani and their children. I'm just a little ?????
Like, what's the take, here? Poor Paul, he couldn't help but do an intergalactic genocide?
And to be clear--I was completely prepared and ready to witness some Shakespearean-level tragedy. I was not expecting a happy ending for anyone. But the sad ending I got was so disappointing, and there was no justice in it re: Paul, the empire, or the Fremen people. By the way this is talked about, I was expecting some fire post-colonial or anti-imperial commentary, and I was just underwhelmed on that front.
Duncan Idaho (Alia plot points WILDLY aside) was the main high point. That was interesting, and his coming back to himself was cool.
1.) Paul's on about trying to disengage the jihad all of Dune 1 and, to an extent, 2. There's this path of "discrediting himself" that he talks about, but at the end, the path he takes is one that doesn't discredit himself?? Duncan's literally reflecting on how Paul's final actions establish him as a religious figurehead for the Fremen people.
2.) There's clearly a theme here about Paul having no power over his power, and being mostly just aware of the flow of time but ultimately just as tossed about by it as everyone else. I get that. But also, he's so resistant to changing and stepping off the path in case one of the worse visions happen that he lets an incomprehensible genocide play out to avoid a somehow even worse incomprehensible genocide? Am I getting that right? There was no point at which he might've given an order to "no, leave that planet alone?" or "no, don't kill all those people?" That just...wouldn't have worked? What's Herbert trying to say, here? That certain pressures and rhetoric are unstoppably destructive?
3.) Chani and Irulan deserved better, but Chani deserved way, way better.
4.) The incest thing was extremely ick. As was Herbert sexualizing the crap out of a fourteen/fifteen year old girl's body. I don't give a fig about the acrobatics the story performs to make Alia a grown-up inside. This stuff isn't thought-up in a vacuum, and therefore it absolutely merits some major side eye. That alone knocked my enjoyment of this novel down multiple stars.
5.) Chani should've been given a voice to speak to Paul's decision making on her and their children's behalf. There was opportunity for good conflict there, and it floated out the window because Chani's reduced to an Ophelia, here.
And that's the center of the biggest issue for me--once again, we have all significant women characters ending up fridged or holding the short end of the stick. And Paul who I'd assumed would fall from power (based on how everyone talks about this book), ends up valorized by the very people he manipulated in the first book.
I'd find his fear of other futures more convincing if the text gave us more solidity and detail about those futures, but most of it is kept rather vague, and the only points that are expanded are the more personal, AU fates of Chani and their children. I'm just a little ?????
Like, what's the take, here? Poor Paul, he couldn't help but do an intergalactic genocide?
And to be clear--I was completely prepared and ready to witness some Shakespearean-level tragedy. I was not expecting a happy ending for anyone. But the sad ending I got was so disappointing, and there was no justice in it re: Paul, the empire, or the Fremen people. By the way this is talked about, I was expecting some fire post-colonial or anti-imperial commentary, and I was just underwhelmed on that front.
Duncan Idaho (Alia plot points WILDLY aside) was the main high point. That was interesting, and his coming back to himself was cool.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Addiction, Adult/minor relationship, Death, Drug abuse, Genocide, Incest, Infertility, Misogyny, Pedophilia, Sexism, Suicide, Violence, Death of parent, Pregnancy, and Colonisation
shay43geek's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
mysterious
sad
tense
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? N/A
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
4.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Death, Torture, and Violence
Moderate: Adult/minor relationship
emilywemily6's review against another edition
challenging
mysterious
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
Herbert’s writing is tough to get into; I feel like there was so much he was trying to say, but he was so vague about it that I missed his message. I liked that this book was a lot of political intrigue. I also feel like the length was perfect. I really wish you learned more about the events immediately after Dune though. The time gap made it hard to feel invested in where the characters are now, a decade later. Though even though it had been a bit since I read Dune, I still remembered enough to get back into this world without too much trouble. I think this book has more merits in being reread over and over again.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Death, Infertility, Racism, Pregnancy, Injury/Injury detail, and Classism
Moderate: Addiction, Violence, and War
Minor: Adult/minor relationship, Child death, and Sexual content
dpekus's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
mysterious
reflective
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.25
Visiškai kitokia nei pirmoji knyga, bet tuo pačiu ir nesiskirianti - tiesiog epinius nuotykius ir mūšius keičia gilūs ir sukti politiniai žaidimai bei vidinės personažų kovos su pačiais savimi (ir tas pasireiškia vos ne kiekvienam iš pagrindinių personažų). Pradžioj skaitėsi sunkiai ir lėtai, daug naujų vardų ir terminų, bet gana greitai viskas susistato į vietas.
Gal ta pirmoji knygos pusė ir kiek gali išvarginti savo politiniais dialogais, bet antroji pusė savo tempu per daug nesiskiria nuo pirmosios knygos, o visos filosofinės įžvalgos padeda kiek kitaip pažvelgti į personažus. Vienintelis didesnis minusas - moteriški personažai, kurių paskirtis beveik visada buvo arba pratęsti imperatoriaus giminę, arba pamesti protą dėl vyro (ir nuogai brolio akivaizdoj treniruotis kardu - ką??). Bet net ir su šituo knyga labai stipri ir puikiai pratęsia Kopos istoriją - o skaičius pirmąją knygą šią paskaityti tiesiog būtina.
Gal ta pirmoji knygos pusė ir kiek gali išvarginti savo politiniais dialogais, bet antroji pusė savo tempu per daug nesiskiria nuo pirmosios knygos, o visos filosofinės įžvalgos padeda kiek kitaip pažvelgti į personažus. Vienintelis didesnis minusas - moteriški personažai, kurių paskirtis beveik visada buvo arba pratęsti imperatoriaus giminę, arba pamesti protą dėl vyro (ir nuogai brolio akivaizdoj treniruotis kardu - ką??). Bet net ir su šituo knyga labai stipri ir puikiai pratęsia Kopos istoriją - o skaičius pirmąją knygą šią paskaityti tiesiog būtina.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Death, Violence, and War
Moderate: Adult/minor relationship and Injury/Injury detail
Minor: Incest and Infertility