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laileanah's review against another edition
informative
lighthearted
reflective
medium-paced
3.0
I quite liked this. It was thoroughly researched, very readable/accessible for lay readers of history.
I felt that Baker took a somewhat royalist view of Eleanor & Simon de Montfort. I think that bias, not really bias, more attitude impacted how he views her. There's a time after which, after more than a decade of thoughtless treatment by Henry III, Eleanor can hold up a Treaty with King Louis in exchange for her tardy dowry payments. The author implies this was wrong of Eleanor, but I don't agree. It's not Eleanor's fault that Henry was perpetually broke. Henry found lands & money for their de Lusignon siblings, Eleanor was within her rights to demand the same. She'd already tried asking nicely repeatedly. Her efforts were valid.
It's weird because Baker seems to recognize that historical sexism has colored the public memory of Eleanor of Provence.
I removed a star because of awkward phrasing surrounding antisemitism in Henry III & Eleanor of Provence's Court.
There's an incident at the very end of chapter 6 in which a child's body is found dead in a well. The child's mother claims that Jewish folks ritually sacrificed her Christian child. This is a very common antisemitic claim. There's been no evidence in historical studies that there ever existed a group of Jewish folks that ritually sacrificed xtian kids. This is just how antisemitism operated in society at that time. No doubt the boy was murdered and given what we today know and understand about crime, it was possibly someone in his own family, almost certainly someone in his own community. Violence like this tends to fall along community lines. Often ostracized and deeply oppressed communities are blamed in situations like this. It still happens today, which is why immigration is such a hot-button political issue. Statistically, very little crime is committed by immigrants, but that's not how society chooses to look at these relationships.
Instead, the author chooses to act like, from this great distance, we can't possibly know what occurred. This is true but leaves the impression that Jewish folks might have ritually murdered xtian children. I'm sure the author isn't himself antisemitic and I'm sure he meant no offense. Still, words matter, and it's incumbent on current historians to speak respectfully historically oppressed communities. For me, that includes giving historical context to biased claims.
I felt that Baker took a somewhat royalist view of Eleanor & Simon de Montfort. I think that bias, not really bias, more attitude impacted how he views her. There's a time after which, after more than a decade of thoughtless treatment by Henry III, Eleanor can hold up a Treaty with King Louis in exchange for her tardy dowry payments. The author implies this was wrong of Eleanor, but I don't agree. It's not Eleanor's fault that Henry was perpetually broke. Henry found lands & money for their de Lusignon siblings, Eleanor was within her rights to demand the same. She'd already tried asking nicely repeatedly. Her efforts were valid.
It's weird because Baker seems to recognize that historical sexism has colored the public memory of Eleanor of Provence.
I removed a star because of awkward phrasing surrounding antisemitism in Henry III & Eleanor of Provence's Court.
There's an incident at the very end of chapter 6 in which a child's body is found dead in a well. The child's mother claims that Jewish folks ritually sacrificed her Christian child. This is a very common antisemitic claim. There's been no evidence in historical studies that there ever existed a group of Jewish folks that ritually sacrificed xtian kids. This is just how antisemitism operated in society at that time. No doubt the boy was murdered and given what we today know and understand about crime, it was possibly someone in his own family, almost certainly someone in his own community. Violence like this tends to fall along community lines. Often ostracized and deeply oppressed communities are blamed in situations like this. It still happens today, which is why immigration is such a hot-button political issue. Statistically, very little crime is committed by immigrants, but that's not how society chooses to look at these relationships.
Instead, the author chooses to act like, from this great distance, we can't possibly know what occurred. This is true but leaves the impression that Jewish folks might have ritually murdered xtian children. I'm sure the author isn't himself antisemitic and I'm sure he meant no offense. Still, words matter, and it's incumbent on current historians to speak respectfully historically oppressed communities. For me, that includes giving historical context to biased claims.
sherwoodreads's review
Biographies of medieval people, particularly of women, are going to be the equivalent of the long-focus lens: all the machinery can at least bring the target into view, but necessarily a bit flattened.
Baker works hard to tease out from behind their men the two Eleanors (one the sister, and one the wife, of Henry III--the seldom-mentioned, long-reigned son of the infamous King John), but as there is scarce material about women of the time, it's a monumental task of detective work, perhaps prompting the author to make somewhat novelistic-sounding guesses as to thoughts and actions. I actually liked these--they were fairly well labeled as such (unlike too many biographers of Jane Austen, who can't seem to resist telling us what was in her head via her fiction), and they helped to bring the lives of these people better into focus.
I appreciated Baker's efforts to convey a sense of the time: this was the generation after the Magna Carta. Henry had to negotiate his way between traditional views of kingship and what his father had agreed to with the barons, who came together for those first Parliaments.
This was still the time of crusades, and Baker gives a little attention to the thinking behind these (disastrous) ventures that had some complex motivations, and cultural outcomes. He also conveys an idea of medieval kingship as well as thinking, through details such as Henry's and Eleanor's habit of feeding hundreds of poor people a day--thousands, after some big event, in order to assure that these people's prayers would have extra impact on temporal events. Such actions helped shape the evolving idea of what kings were, and what they could do.
But the fact remains that there is scant primary evidence about these interesting women. We know that both Eleanors had spouses who remained faithful their entire lives. We catch sight of them in snatches through pregnancies and deliveries and children through the festivals, rituals, and some letters. We can see that they were friends until friendship was impossible when Simon de Montfort turned against Henry and embarked on disastrous and bloody civil war.
Baker does a good job of winnowing truth from contemporary chroniclers, who made no bones about their agendas: when men wrote about women, even queens, it was always to instruct, and the lesson was invariably that good queens are submissive, faithful, and fruitful, and bad queens are bad wives and try to encroach on male prerogatives.
Excellent notes provide intriguing nuggets of information for the history detectives among us, along with a very strong bibliography.
I read this in snips over months; it was easy to put down, but always a pleasure to pick up again. I'd recommend it for readers curious about a seldom-visited period.
Copy provided by NetGalley
Baker works hard to tease out from behind their men the two Eleanors (one the sister, and one the wife, of Henry III--the seldom-mentioned, long-reigned son of the infamous King John), but as there is scarce material about women of the time, it's a monumental task of detective work, perhaps prompting the author to make somewhat novelistic-sounding guesses as to thoughts and actions. I actually liked these--they were fairly well labeled as such (unlike too many biographers of Jane Austen, who can't seem to resist telling us what was in her head via her fiction), and they helped to bring the lives of these people better into focus.
I appreciated Baker's efforts to convey a sense of the time: this was the generation after the Magna Carta. Henry had to negotiate his way between traditional views of kingship and what his father had agreed to with the barons, who came together for those first Parliaments.
This was still the time of crusades, and Baker gives a little attention to the thinking behind these (disastrous) ventures that had some complex motivations, and cultural outcomes. He also conveys an idea of medieval kingship as well as thinking, through details such as Henry's and Eleanor's habit of feeding hundreds of poor people a day--thousands, after some big event, in order to assure that these people's prayers would have extra impact on temporal events. Such actions helped shape the evolving idea of what kings were, and what they could do.
But the fact remains that there is scant primary evidence about these interesting women. We know that both Eleanors had spouses who remained faithful their entire lives. We catch sight of them in snatches through pregnancies and deliveries and children through the festivals, rituals, and some letters. We can see that they were friends until friendship was impossible when Simon de Montfort turned against Henry and embarked on disastrous and bloody civil war.
Baker does a good job of winnowing truth from contemporary chroniclers, who made no bones about their agendas: when men wrote about women, even queens, it was always to instruct, and the lesson was invariably that good queens are submissive, faithful, and fruitful, and bad queens are bad wives and try to encroach on male prerogatives.
Excellent notes provide intriguing nuggets of information for the history detectives among us, along with a very strong bibliography.
I read this in snips over months; it was easy to put down, but always a pleasure to pick up again. I'd recommend it for readers curious about a seldom-visited period.
Copy provided by NetGalley
hmalagisi's review
4.0
Two women who shared a name, related by marriage but divided by political and monetary motives. In Medieval Europe, this statement could refer to any number of women, but the two women who are the center of this particular story revolve around medieval England and the reign of King Henry III. One was Henry’s sister whose marriages and money problems were a thorn in her brother’s side. The other was Henry III’s wife who stood by his side and protected their children even when the nation despised her. Their names were Eleanor de Montfort and Eleanor of Provence respectfully; their stories are filled with disasters and triumphs that would shape how England was ruled in medieval times. Darren Baker explores their lives and the lives of their families in his latest biography, “The Two Eleanors of Henry III: The Lives of Eleanor of Provence and Eleanor De Montfort”.
I would like to thank Pen and Sword Books for sending me a copy of this book. I wanted to read more books about Medieval Europe and this one caught my eye. I have never read a book by Darren Baker or about either Eleanors, so I did not know what to expect. I am glad I decided to take a chance on this book.
Baker’s book begins with the story of King John’s children, King Henry III and his sister Eleanor Plantagenet. As Henry III was figuring out how his new rule would work under the newly formed Magna Carta, Eleanor Plantagenet was married to William Marshal. In all likelihood, their union would have been successful, except that he died in 1231; they were only married for seven years, but this marriage would leave a massive inheritance problem in the form of the Marshal estate. Instead of marrying again, Eleanor decided to become a bride of Christ.
In the meantime, Henry III found his wife in France, Eleanor of Provence, making an alliance with the French that would prove to be beneficial in the long run. As Henry and Eleanor were settling down into married life, Eleanor Plantagenet left the religious life to marry Simon de Montfort, a friend and rising star in Henry III’s court. These two couples were thick as thieves until money and politics drove a wedge between them that could never be repaired. This conflict between the couples would help establish a parliamentary democracy in England, that caused a civil war to break out between the Montfortians/ Lusignans and the King/Savoyards. The war would end at the Battle of Evesham.
Since this is a double biography, Baker takes the time to show both sides of the conflict, through Eleanor de Montfort and Eleanor of Provence’s stories. It is really interesting to see how each woman handled the conflict and how chroniclers either praised or criticized them for their actions and who they were. My only concern with Baker’s approach is that he will sometimes put words into the mouths or in the minds of the historical figures. You could understand what Baker’s opinions were on certain issues. I don’t think I would have minded if it was every once in a while, but it was quite frequent and it started to bother me.
Overall, I did enjoy Baker’s writing style in this book. It may be a double biography, but it reads like a historical fiction novel. Although it is sometimes difficult to tell the two Eleanors apart, Baker does his best and presents a fascinating tale of a family in turmoil over finances and power. “The Two Eleanors of Henry III: The Lives of Eleanor of Provence and Eleanor de Montfort” by Darren Baker is an enjoyable introduction into this fascinating, tumultuous time in Medieval English history.
I would like to thank Pen and Sword Books for sending me a copy of this book. I wanted to read more books about Medieval Europe and this one caught my eye. I have never read a book by Darren Baker or about either Eleanors, so I did not know what to expect. I am glad I decided to take a chance on this book.
Baker’s book begins with the story of King John’s children, King Henry III and his sister Eleanor Plantagenet. As Henry III was figuring out how his new rule would work under the newly formed Magna Carta, Eleanor Plantagenet was married to William Marshal. In all likelihood, their union would have been successful, except that he died in 1231; they were only married for seven years, but this marriage would leave a massive inheritance problem in the form of the Marshal estate. Instead of marrying again, Eleanor decided to become a bride of Christ.
In the meantime, Henry III found his wife in France, Eleanor of Provence, making an alliance with the French that would prove to be beneficial in the long run. As Henry and Eleanor were settling down into married life, Eleanor Plantagenet left the religious life to marry Simon de Montfort, a friend and rising star in Henry III’s court. These two couples were thick as thieves until money and politics drove a wedge between them that could never be repaired. This conflict between the couples would help establish a parliamentary democracy in England, that caused a civil war to break out between the Montfortians/ Lusignans and the King/Savoyards. The war would end at the Battle of Evesham.
Since this is a double biography, Baker takes the time to show both sides of the conflict, through Eleanor de Montfort and Eleanor of Provence’s stories. It is really interesting to see how each woman handled the conflict and how chroniclers either praised or criticized them for their actions and who they were. My only concern with Baker’s approach is that he will sometimes put words into the mouths or in the minds of the historical figures. You could understand what Baker’s opinions were on certain issues. I don’t think I would have minded if it was every once in a while, but it was quite frequent and it started to bother me.
Overall, I did enjoy Baker’s writing style in this book. It may be a double biography, but it reads like a historical fiction novel. Although it is sometimes difficult to tell the two Eleanors apart, Baker does his best and presents a fascinating tale of a family in turmoil over finances and power. “The Two Eleanors of Henry III: The Lives of Eleanor of Provence and Eleanor de Montfort” by Darren Baker is an enjoyable introduction into this fascinating, tumultuous time in Medieval English history.
deebee554's review
4.0
I so badly wanted to finish this book having read only 2/3rds. While I've read many Tudor books I enjoyed reading this but kept getting confused with the characters due to them having the same names.
bibliophiliadk's review
3.0
WHO ARE THE REAL MAIN CHARACTERS? THE TWO ELEANORS OR HENRY AND SIMON?
While this book is supposed to be about two great Eleanors - Eleanor de Montfort, wife of Simon de Montfort and Queen Eleanor of Provence, wife of Henry III - it didn't really feel as if they were the actual subjects of this book. Still, it was enlightening and entertaining, though with a few flaws.
THE THINGS I LIKED
The unknown: With medieval history it is not unusual at encounter things we just don't know and have no way of figuring out. While many authors try to gloss over this fact and present theories and ideas as reality (erroneously), Baker doesn't fall into this trap. He is not afraid to admit when there is something unknown or contested. Props for that.
The other women: Try looking up medieval female biographies . I guarantee you, 19/20 are going to be about queens. The explanation is straightforward enough - we simply do not have all that many sources about any other women. And, to be honest, the sources about the queens are pretty sparse as well. Therefore I applaud Baker for trying to illuminate the life of another woman, though still a royal one.
THE THINGS I DISLIKED
Which Eleanor?: Writing a dual biography about two women who share the same name cannot be easy. And, in honesty, sometimes it wasn't easy to read either. Honestly, sometimes I did not know which Eleanor Baker was referring to, since he wasn't always that consistent in using their epithets. That led to some confusion.
Biased: To me, while reading this book, I had a clear feeling that Baker was not Simon de Montfort's biggest fan. Now, I might be wrong about this. But even if I am, the fact that I even had the feeling is not good.
Main characters?: I know that writing about medieval women can be a challenge - I did my masters' thesis on Medieval Queens, so I would know - but if you set out to write a biography about two prominent, medieval women, don't go making them into supportive characters in their own narrative. Give them the courtesy of being the heroes of their own stories.
ARC provided by the publisher through NetGalley in exchange for an honest review
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While this book is supposed to be about two great Eleanors - Eleanor de Montfort, wife of Simon de Montfort and Queen Eleanor of Provence, wife of Henry III - it didn't really feel as if they were the actual subjects of this book. Still, it was enlightening and entertaining, though with a few flaws.
THE THINGS I LIKED
The unknown: With medieval history it is not unusual at encounter things we just don't know and have no way of figuring out. While many authors try to gloss over this fact and present theories and ideas as reality (erroneously), Baker doesn't fall into this trap. He is not afraid to admit when there is something unknown or contested. Props for that.
The other women: Try looking up medieval female biographies . I guarantee you, 19/20 are going to be about queens. The explanation is straightforward enough - we simply do not have all that many sources about any other women. And, to be honest, the sources about the queens are pretty sparse as well. Therefore I applaud Baker for trying to illuminate the life of another woman, though still a royal one.
THE THINGS I DISLIKED
Which Eleanor?: Writing a dual biography about two women who share the same name cannot be easy. And, in honesty, sometimes it wasn't easy to read either. Honestly, sometimes I did not know which Eleanor Baker was referring to, since he wasn't always that consistent in using their epithets. That led to some confusion.
Biased: To me, while reading this book, I had a clear feeling that Baker was not Simon de Montfort's biggest fan. Now, I might be wrong about this. But even if I am, the fact that I even had the feeling is not good.
"[...] he [Simon] was a disgruntled sort who was after some glittering prize for himself and his wife"
Main characters?: I know that writing about medieval women can be a challenge - I did my masters' thesis on Medieval Queens, so I would know - but if you set out to write a biography about two prominent, medieval women, don't go making them into supportive characters in their own narrative. Give them the courtesy of being the heroes of their own stories.
ARC provided by the publisher through NetGalley in exchange for an honest review
FOLLOW MY BLOG FOR MORE BOOK GOODNESS
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