eggp's review against another edition
4.0
Colonists' wet dream
cryptic natives, muddy pits
slaves do all the work.
cryptic natives, muddy pits
slaves do all the work.
joshebarry's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
informative
mysterious
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
A great book by Cherryh that tells the story of a colony collapse, and explored the fascinating subsequent development and evolution of the human population in hand with an alien (intelligent) species named the Caliban.
Cleverly spread over ~400 years, the book allows you to see every step along the way, with some major theme changes throughout. The start, dealing with the collapse, is rather dark and depressing at times, while later sections are more hopefully.
The book also is littered throughout with communiques and memos sent between the scientific research mission, which was a genus method of showing external points of view.
Perhaps the best book I've ever read dealing with first contact, and one of the first that didn't fall into the cliche of 'the aliens are super clever and learn English so our readers can understand'. Having the Caliban communicate through body language and signs, as well as physical diagrams, made them as bizzare and unknowable to the reader as they are to the characters.
Cleverly spread over ~400 years, the book allows you to see every step along the way, with some major theme changes throughout. The start, dealing with the collapse, is rather dark and depressing at times, while later sections are more hopefully.
The book also is littered throughout with communiques and memos sent between the scientific research mission, which was a genus method of showing external points of view.
Perhaps the best book I've ever read dealing with first contact, and one of the first that didn't fall into the cliche of 'the aliens are super clever and learn English so our readers can understand'. Having the Caliban communicate through body language and signs, as well as physical diagrams, made them as bizzare and unknowable to the reader as they are to the characters.
heyt's review
3.0
I will say that I enjoyed this more than I thought I would initially. This is a multigenerational tale but man was the first generation so boring I almost wanted to give up. I liked watching as each generation unfolded and developed in new and unique ways to the one before it. This starts off as a tale of colonialism but then diverges into something of an anthropological nature and defining sentient species. The section of the book I liked the best was VII Elai and that's because of the relationship between Elai and McGee. Just McGee for everything. I love her so much be it her departmental memo shade or her devotion to fieldwork hands down my favorite character.
oleksandr's review against another edition
5.0
This is a novel set in Alliance-Union Universe. I read is as a part of monthly reading for June 2020 at SciFi and Fantasy Book Club group.
While this book is a part of the larger series, it can be read as a standalone, just like the other books in the series, e.g. [b:Cyteen|834518|Cyteen (Cyteen, #1-3)|C.J. Cherryh|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1316469389l/834518._SX50_.jpg|820134] or [b:Downbelow Station|57045|Downbelow Station (The Company Wars, #1)|C.J. Cherryh|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1388858297l/57045._SY75_.jpg|55573]. At the same time reading other books allows to see a broader scope, so it is definitely encouraged.
The story starts with quite usual SF trope – colonization of a new Earth like planet. However, x takes a number of unusual turns, which make this book unique.
Firstly, the majority of over 40000 colonists are azi ("Azi" is an acronym for "artificial zygote insemination". The azi are first developed by Union just prior to the "Company War" in the early twenty-fourth century. They are both genetically engineered and psychologically conditioned for specific occupations, such as soldiers or farmers. They are created to supplement the low human reproductive rate and bring a given settlement to self-sufficiency and economic viability.). Azi, due to the method of their “mass production” don’t grew up in families, but get both their education as socialization traits from tapes ("Tape" is a computer-controlled combination of conditioning and biofeedback training. This technology allows large-scale education, especially if pupils are genetically and psychologically similar, like azi.) One of the goals of the newly established colony is try to make ‘born-men’ from naturally born future generations of azi.
Secondly, there are lizard-like local species (from dog-sized to gargantuan), who built strange constructions from mud (this is considered an instinct activity even if the goal is unclear), named calibans. Initially the colony is exceptionally careful with local life, but as calibans start entering ‘colony space’ the situation worsens.
Even starting with these two promises and writing a story about people born on the planet vs ‘old-timers’ would have been enough for a lot of authors. However, Cherryh goes much wider in both time and space, she makes it a multigenerational saga, a first contact with extremely different but potentially understandable species, growth and fall of civilizations and ways of thinking.
The book has a wealth of ideas. I see a lot of comparisons to [a:Ursula K. Le Guin|874602|Ursula K. Le Guin|https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1244291425p2/874602.jpg] but for me Cherryh writing style is weaker, less poetically flowing; she is dedicated to minimalism, a more sterile view from outside and incomplete suggestions. Her style fits the story, with its multiple POVs and excerpts from formal reports, etc.
While this book is a part of the larger series, it can be read as a standalone, just like the other books in the series, e.g. [b:Cyteen|834518|Cyteen (Cyteen, #1-3)|C.J. Cherryh|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1316469389l/834518._SX50_.jpg|820134] or [b:Downbelow Station|57045|Downbelow Station (The Company Wars, #1)|C.J. Cherryh|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1388858297l/57045._SY75_.jpg|55573]. At the same time reading other books allows to see a broader scope, so it is definitely encouraged.
The story starts with quite usual SF trope – colonization of a new Earth like planet. However, x takes a number of unusual turns, which make this book unique.
Firstly, the majority of over 40000 colonists are azi ("Azi" is an acronym for "artificial zygote insemination". The azi are first developed by Union just prior to the "Company War" in the early twenty-fourth century. They are both genetically engineered and psychologically conditioned for specific occupations, such as soldiers or farmers. They are created to supplement the low human reproductive rate and bring a given settlement to self-sufficiency and economic viability.). Azi, due to the method of their “mass production” don’t grew up in families, but get both their education as socialization traits from tapes ("Tape" is a computer-controlled combination of conditioning and biofeedback training. This technology allows large-scale education, especially if pupils are genetically and psychologically similar, like azi.) One of the goals of the newly established colony is try to make ‘born-men’ from naturally born future generations of azi.
Secondly, there are lizard-like local species (from dog-sized to gargantuan), who built strange constructions from mud (this is considered an instinct activity even if the goal is unclear), named calibans. Initially the colony is exceptionally careful with local life, but as calibans start entering ‘colony space’ the situation worsens.
Even starting with these two promises and writing a story about people born on the planet vs ‘old-timers’ would have been enough for a lot of authors. However, Cherryh goes much wider in both time and space, she makes it a multigenerational saga, a first contact with extremely different but potentially understandable species, growth and fall of civilizations and ways of thinking.
The book has a wealth of ideas. I see a lot of comparisons to [a:Ursula K. Le Guin|874602|Ursula K. Le Guin|https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1244291425p2/874602.jpg] but for me Cherryh writing style is weaker, less poetically flowing; she is dedicated to minimalism, a more sterile view from outside and incomplete suggestions. Her style fits the story, with its multiple POVs and excerpts from formal reports, etc.
divadiane's review against another edition
4.0
i completely forgot to post a review. So here’s what I posted in the discussion on the Science Fiction and Fantasy Book Club:
I finally finished! It wasn't a struggle really, Downbelow Station was much harder to get through, in my opinion. In fact, I really enjoyed it, but it was a bit bewildering in places. I thought the hereditary names was actually pretty clever in giving us a hand-hold as to where these new characters fit in and were coming from. It was like a built in backstory, which didn't have to be info dumped. Cherryh's style is so, so spare. And it's worse even with the new native human Gehennan's in an attempt at a sort of dialect plus the fact that they communicated with sign language and patterning as well.
I thought the Weirds were an interesting bridge to the calibans. To me, it seemed Cherryh was saying they were an unknown direct side effect of azi reproduction and if the azi's abandoned on the planet had continued to have tape and their children had had it as well, the Weirds probably wouldn't have developed. As it was, their lack of verbal communication is what gave them that connection to the calibans and thus a means for the whole society to stabilize and survive. Otherwise, I think the calibans would've undermined all the settlements and killed everyone. As it was, the Weirds "saved" the rest of the Gehennans and made a Base untenable.
So, do people think that it was the brown calibans that brought about the destruction of the Styxside settlements (as was theorized by Elai)? But why? Is Cherryh saying because the female led society was better for calibans (because they didn't eat the grays) or because they were less war-like and understood the calibans better?
I finally finished! It wasn't a struggle really, Downbelow Station was much harder to get through, in my opinion. In fact, I really enjoyed it, but it was a bit bewildering in places. I thought the hereditary names was actually pretty clever in giving us a hand-hold as to where these new characters fit in and were coming from. It was like a built in backstory, which didn't have to be info dumped. Cherryh's style is so, so spare. And it's worse even with the new native human Gehennan's in an attempt at a sort of dialect plus the fact that they communicated with sign language and patterning as well.
I thought the Weirds were an interesting bridge to the calibans. To me, it seemed Cherryh was saying they were an unknown direct side effect of azi reproduction and if the azi's abandoned on the planet had continued to have tape and their children had had it as well, the Weirds probably wouldn't have developed. As it was, their lack of verbal communication is what gave them that connection to the calibans and thus a means for the whole society to stabilize and survive. Otherwise, I think the calibans would've undermined all the settlements and killed everyone. As it was, the Weirds "saved" the rest of the Gehennans and made a Base untenable.
So, do people think that it was the brown calibans that brought about the destruction of the Styxside settlements (as was theorized by Elai)? But why? Is Cherryh saying because the female led society was better for calibans (because they didn't eat the grays) or because they were less war-like and understood the calibans better?
fairymodmother's review against another edition
3.0
This was a hugely ambitious work. I think you can feel the influence of Foundation and Dragonflight in it, and perhaps Clan of the Cave Bear, but with a distinct writing style and focus.
CONTENT WARNINGS: (just a list of topics)
Things to love:
-The concepts. Cherryh put forth an exceptional effort to hit on every moral issue confronting populating a new planet with lifeforms that do not mirror any known species, and what to do when that new population "goes native" in the sense that they become inextricably linked to the new planet with a separate path towards culture. AND ALSO questions of the morality of a world with high tech, clones and so on. Whew, there was so much to chew on in this book.
-The scope. Truly staggering. We follow about 400 years of history, from the time they are selected for colonizing a new planet to 300 years after, when that colony has been cut off and then reintegrated into the planetary federation.
-The aliens. I thought this idea was very cool and handled much better than many first contact scenarios. The work that went into figuring out their culture was impressive.
-The POVs. We have shifting POVs including people in command, people who are effectively slaves, scientists, all told through a mix of media--journals, memos, reports, and classic storytelling with the limited narrator.
-A few great lines. There were a few things that really stuck out to me in the writing. One of my favorite parts was That was really great.
Things that didn't quite grab me:
-Characters. So much effort went into the world, its history, the cultures that were developing etc. that the people in it felt more or less extraneous to me. They were there just to demonstrate what the world was doing and how observers would react. I did not connect emotionally with anyone. Even the ones we got to see a bit more "personally" felt like author stand-ins, and almost all of the emotional moments were overshadowed for me by obscene cruelty shown by anyone observing the person experiencing emotion. Most interactions were incredibly toxic in ways that I'm not sure follow without examination of why this would be their inclination.
-Elly's story. Given what we see later, this did not add up to me. I also hate the woman rival thing (ESPECIALLY WITH HER BROTHERS EW).
-Names. This was really difficult. Everyone was named one of 5 or 6 names across time.
-The whys. We saw so much of what and how but very little why. The set up with Union and Alliance made very little sense to me. The idea of two separate cultures growing seemed plausible, but I didn't understand why. Things kept happening to drastically alter history but I kept asking why? And I just don't think that was the focus. The focus was very much on the thought experiment of how this would play out if human history were condensed and reverted back to the stone age from well into the space age.
-The end. It felt fairly abrupt and a bit less thoughtful than the rest of the book had been.
I'm glad I read it and will certainly try more by this author as I believe her imagination and skill to be unique, but I don't think I can honestly say I loved it. 3.5 for me and I'm very torn on which way to round. I think down because I really did like it, but I don't think I'll pick up this series again next, necessarily, and I'm not sure I'd unreservedly recommend it.
CONTENT WARNINGS: (just a list of topics)
Spoiler
rape, sexual coercion, animal cruelty, misogyny, ableism, slavery, gore/body horror (not of eyes), parental neglect.Things to love:
-The concepts. Cherryh put forth an exceptional effort to hit on every moral issue confronting populating a new planet with lifeforms that do not mirror any known species, and what to do when that new population "goes native" in the sense that they become inextricably linked to the new planet with a separate path towards culture. AND ALSO questions of the morality of a world with high tech, clones and so on. Whew, there was so much to chew on in this book.
-The scope. Truly staggering. We follow about 400 years of history, from the time they are selected for colonizing a new planet to 300 years after, when that colony has been cut off and then reintegrated into the planetary federation.
-The aliens. I thought this idea was very cool and handled much better than many first contact scenarios. The work that went into figuring out their culture was impressive.
-The POVs. We have shifting POVs including people in command, people who are effectively slaves, scientists, all told through a mix of media--journals, memos, reports, and classic storytelling with the limited narrator.
-A few great lines. There were a few things that really stuck out to me in the writing. One of my favorite parts was
Spoiler
when a scientist was questioning gender as a social construct and how hard it is to remove ourselves from human thinking, but when you do you start to see that most of our beliefs on "how things are" is mostly just a myth we tell ourselves to make life simpler.Things that didn't quite grab me:
-Characters. So much effort went into the world, its history, the cultures that were developing etc. that the people in it felt more or less extraneous to me. They were there just to demonstrate what the world was doing and how observers would react. I did not connect emotionally with anyone. Even the ones we got to see a bit more "personally" felt like author stand-ins, and almost all of the emotional moments were overshadowed for me by obscene cruelty shown by anyone observing the person experiencing emotion. Most interactions were incredibly toxic in ways that I'm not sure follow without examination of why this would be their inclination.
-Elly's story. Given what we see later, this did not add up to me. I also hate the woman rival thing (ESPECIALLY WITH HER BROTHERS EW).
-Names. This was really difficult. Everyone was named one of 5 or 6 names across time.
-The whys. We saw so much of what and how but very little why. The set up with Union and Alliance made very little sense to me. The idea of two separate cultures growing seemed plausible, but I didn't understand why. Things kept happening to drastically alter history but I kept asking why? And I just don't think that was the focus. The focus was very much on the thought experiment of how this would play out if human history were condensed and reverted back to the stone age from well into the space age.
-The end. It felt fairly abrupt and a bit less thoughtful than the rest of the book had been.
I'm glad I read it and will certainly try more by this author as I believe her imagination and skill to be unique, but I don't think I can honestly say I loved it. 3.5 for me and I'm very torn on which way to round. I think down because I really did like it, but I don't think I'll pick up this series again next, necessarily, and I'm not sure I'd unreservedly recommend it.
scribal's review against another edition
5.0
There are a lot of books that imagine what it would be like to reboot human society on a new world--very few of them seem to get beyond the mechanics of reinventing soap and marriage. Cherryh starts way beyond that.
Cherryh's one of my favorite authors but when I first read this book it was not easy to get into. It was only after I started seeing the full shape of the story that I began to really appreciate it. That's fitting because within the story, it's only when the full shapes of things are seen that they can be understood. I reread it recently with that in mind and the beginning had much more resonance.
What I love particularly about this book are the ideas of language and pattern and abstract thinking....and questioning human interpretations. This is an early book of Cherryh's and the ideas are not as fully and slickly developed as in some of her later work but I think it's still one of my favorites.
Cherryh's one of my favorite authors but when I first read this book it was not easy to get into. It was only after I started seeing the full shape of the story that I began to really appreciate it. That's fitting because within the story, it's only when the full shapes of things are seen that they can be understood. I reread it recently with that in mind and the beginning had much more resonance.
What I love particularly about this book are the ideas of language and pattern and abstract thinking....and questioning human interpretations. This is an early book of Cherryh's and the ideas are not as fully and slickly developed as in some of her later work but I think it's still one of my favorites.
sleeping_while_awake's review against another edition
3.0
Forty Thousand in Gehenna is a story set in the Alliance-Union universe, and is briefly mentioned in Cyteen. Unfortunately when I went to read this, I didn't remember the mentions in Cyteen too well. When I read Cyteen I remember the mentions being really interesting. Since this book was written before Cyteen, it's rather sparse on the 'why' of the major plot detail.
Gehenna is a new world that is colonized by Union, the homogeneous space state (I guess that's what you refer to it as) that's always doing spooky bio-engineering and cloning that's banned in the Alliance. They are attempting to colonize as many worlds as possible to antagonize the Alliance. Union sends humans and azis, human clones that are essentially emotionally and behaviorally brainwashed to act in a certain manner, to seed this new world. However, Union has no intention of ever following up or ever checking in on how their settlers are doing.
Something along the lines of not enough resources and they just wanted to piss the Alliance off and make a mess of a new world.
The colonists are left with the instruction that in three years Union ships will arrive with supplies and bring more equipment for development. Everyone is committed to the project.
Although Union was sure there weren't any sentient creatures on Gehenna, that is not the case. There are few lizard species, one being the caliban which is very large, that appear a lot smarter than they seem. Without giving spoilers, the story follows the colonists and their descendants over many years, and their adaptation to the world on which they have been abandoned.
Thrown into the mix are the azi, which reproduce, and contribute some strangeness to the genetic lines.
The colonist portion in the beginning was my favorite, and probably rated 4 stars. However, when it got to the descendants, my interest waned some. It's very much an anthropological story, but Cherryh never gives the whole picture. Sometimes I really wanted an info dump with lots of explanation of the culture, but that didn't really happen.
The way in which the descendants talked and interacted was somewhat clunky. It makes sense that they changed over time, but it was difficult to understand what they were thinking and planning. Maybe that's the point, as any outsider would have the same trouble.
Certainly, the story does feel dated somewhat, but it's a decent read about what happens to a colony on a new world that is abandoned. It doesn't become a Lord of the Flies or Hunger Games kind of story (although that would have been entertaining), but one in which it seems plausible.
Gehenna is a new world that is colonized by Union, the homogeneous space state (I guess that's what you refer to it as) that's always doing spooky bio-engineering and cloning that's banned in the Alliance. They are attempting to colonize as many worlds as possible to antagonize the Alliance. Union sends humans and azis, human clones that are essentially emotionally and behaviorally brainwashed to act in a certain manner, to seed this new world. However, Union has no intention of ever following up or ever checking in on how their settlers are doing.
Something along the lines of not enough resources and they just wanted to piss the Alliance off and make a mess of a new world.
The colonists are left with the instruction that in three years Union ships will arrive with supplies and bring more equipment for development. Everyone is committed to the project.
Although Union was sure there weren't any sentient creatures on Gehenna, that is not the case. There are few lizard species, one being the caliban which is very large, that appear a lot smarter than they seem. Without giving spoilers, the story follows the colonists and their descendants over many years, and their adaptation to the world on which they have been abandoned.
Thrown into the mix are the azi, which reproduce, and contribute some strangeness to the genetic lines.
The colonist portion in the beginning was my favorite, and probably rated 4 stars. However, when it got to the descendants, my interest waned some. It's very much an anthropological story, but Cherryh never gives the whole picture. Sometimes I really wanted an info dump with lots of explanation of the culture, but that didn't really happen.
The way in which the descendants talked and interacted was somewhat clunky. It makes sense that they changed over time, but it was difficult to understand what they were thinking and planning. Maybe that's the point, as any outsider would have the same trouble.
Certainly, the story does feel dated somewhat, but it's a decent read about what happens to a colony on a new world that is abandoned. It doesn't become a Lord of the Flies or Hunger Games kind of story (although that would have been entertaining), but one in which it seems plausible.
jemppu's review against another edition
5.0
Wonderfully perceptive conceptualization of invented societies and cultures, with remarkably Le Guin like precision and authenticity.
An excellently realized narrative, with constant, organically occurring points of suspense; not only in it's most urgent events, but with an overarching lingering tension from various underlying moral uncertainties
While my personal tastes had me more captivated by Cherryh's [b:Cyteen|834518|Cyteen (Cyteen, #1-3)|C.J. Cherryh|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1316469389l/834518._SX50_.jpg|820134] for it's more intimate approach on inner conflicts and explorations on individual's psyche, this still struck as an undeniably accomplished work for it's own specialist theme on wider societal examination.
Also a noteworthy reason for awe is, indeed, that Cherryh is so able to skillfully write narrations with such distinctly different focuses; closely personal or communally resonant. Her tone always just as effortlessly concise; both effective as well as affecting.
This was a worthy read. Both, on it's own and/or as a supporting work to the wider Alliance-Union universe. Encouraging, too, for what all else kind of flavors there still might be to discover from Cherryh's extensive library.
An excellently realized narrative, with constant, organically occurring points of suspense; not only in it's most urgent events, but with an overarching lingering tension from various underlying moral uncertainties
While my personal tastes had me more captivated by Cherryh's [b:Cyteen|834518|Cyteen (Cyteen, #1-3)|C.J. Cherryh|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1316469389l/834518._SX50_.jpg|820134] for it's more intimate approach on inner conflicts and explorations on individual's psyche, this still struck as an undeniably accomplished work for it's own specialist theme on wider societal examination.
Also a noteworthy reason for awe is, indeed, that Cherryh is so able to skillfully write narrations with such distinctly different focuses; closely personal or communally resonant. Her tone always just as effortlessly concise; both effective as well as affecting.
This was a worthy read. Both, on it's own and/or as a supporting work to the wider Alliance-Union universe. Encouraging, too, for what all else kind of flavors there still might be to discover from Cherryh's extensive library.