The design and UX isn't done, Rob and Abbie, okkurrrr! đ
xxstefaniereadsxx's review against another edition
dark
informative
sad
medium-paced
4.0
 The Armenian Genocide was the systematic of ethnic Armenians in the Ottoman Empire during World War I. The genocide lasted from 1915 to 1918, and around 1 million Armenians were murdered during this time. Religious differences between the Islamic Ottoman Empire and the Christian Armenians were a catalyst for the perpetration of genocide. Forced marches through the desert, massacres, robbery, and systematic rape were all tactics used in this genocide. Many more were forced to convert to Islamic practices, mostly the women and children. Despite all of the evidence that proves the Armenian Genocide was a true event, the government of Turkey refuses to admit this. It is extremely unfortunate that this is not recognized for what it is, though several countries do agree that it meets the criteria for genocide. It is equally unfortunate that this isn't widely taught in schools, because it serves as another red flag warning sign for many of the things that people across the world, including the United States, are facing today with forced religion and other genocidal tactics.
I have had this book sitting in my Audible for an obscene amount of time. This year has been very productive for finishing all these things I have bought and not started yet, and I keep thinking I hate that it took me so long to read something...this was one of those times. This book was highly rated, and I had high hopes for it. The Armenian Genocide is a very rarely mentioned topic, and I was certainly never educated about it. I only found out about it in passing through a podcast I listen to, and was interested to learn more. This book was full of well researched, historical information that was presented in an unbiased, straightforward way. If you are wanting to learn more about this topic, I would strongly suggest adding this one to your wish list.Â
I have had this book sitting in my Audible for an obscene amount of time. This year has been very productive for finishing all these things I have bought and not started yet, and I keep thinking I hate that it took me so long to read something...this was one of those times. This book was highly rated, and I had high hopes for it. The Armenian Genocide is a very rarely mentioned topic, and I was certainly never educated about it. I only found out about it in passing through a podcast I listen to, and was interested to learn more. This book was full of well researched, historical information that was presented in an unbiased, straightforward way. If you are wanting to learn more about this topic, I would strongly suggest adding this one to your wish list.Â
bergha1998's review against another edition
3.0
Itâs too scholarly and clinical for such an important topic. I didnât know anything about it before this and I felt like it was only facts no emotion.
darkestknight2911's review against another edition
4.0
# The Book in 3 Sentences
1. History of Armenian and the Armenian Genocide, what caused it and who were involved in it
2. An account of everything that happened during the First World War in the Ottoman Empire
3. An account of how Turkey eliminated its Christian minority by the way of massacre, exile and conversion over the years and specifically during the First World War
# Impressions
Effect of the book on me was grim and dark. The naked cruelty which the Armenians and other minorities of the Ottoman Empire experienced made me squirm with discomfort and empathize with them for the grave injustice visited upon them by fate and design. It showed me how dangerous success is when all around you is unsuccessful. But I still donât understand how this catastrophe could have been avoided. Maybe if the Ottoman government toned down the rhetoric of Kafir and threat against Armenians and instead relied upon their loyal millet statements more and tried to genuinely understand their problems and address them so that they would never need to go after other nations for aid, or to form an independent nations. This would have been possible if the empire was democratic. But it was not. Neither was its people. They were every bit intolerant and entitled as the government. Muslims of the empire knew that they were better stock than the Armenians, they knew that Armenians were a subordinate caste of people. They had more in common with worms and dogs than Turks. Now when I say this this would seem hard to believe for the ordinary ears. Because how can a whole people believe such vile bigotry. But that is only because the average person lives in a peaceful and prospering new world developing or developed nation, where we have found ways to connect and interact with each other in a way that we may see more things and dreams in common between various groups, rather than the profound sense of othering the Turks had towards the Armenians and other Christian minorities. As the Social media age accelerates and glorifies the differences and othering of communities again, we might yet again learn to understand the mindset and attitude of Turks who lived in Ottoman Empire during the genocide; why did they let it happen? How could they participate in such vile acts? And how they learned to forget and justify it so much so that even after so many years Armenians are yet to receive an acknowledgment let alone an apology.
## How I Discovered It
I discovered the book while I was searching for books on Armenian Genocide on Audible. I wanted to read about the genocide after hearing about it on Hardcore history Podcast by Dan Carlin
## Who Should Read It?
Must read for everyone who does not know about the Armenian Genocide and extermination of other minorities in the Ottoman Empire during the First World War. Because this is a balanced account providing insight from all angles, explaining the viewpoint of both perpetrators and the victims with as little bias as possible, which is really difficult to achieve considering the fact that this is one of the most contentious an hotly debated topics since early twentieth century. The contention cuts deeper than just claims about the specifics of the atrocities and genocide, but it even debates the very existence of such atrocities and genocide as the Turkish government has never officially accepted the Genocide.
Also everyone who is interested in the journey of humans as species should also read such books. Because it shows the extent of human cruelty and paints a picture of how division othering and polarization leads to committing of vile acts by relatively normal people
# How the Book Changed Me
It gave me deeper insight into
- What really led to the Armenian Genocide
- The manner in which genocide was conducted and who was responsible for it
- What were its repercussions
- How it affected Armenians as race
- How it affected the further course of history
# âď¸ My Top 3 Quotes
- âThe story here is that the genocide was neither religiously motivated, nor a struggle between two contending nationalisms (one of which destroyed the other), but rather the pathological response of desperate leaders who sought security against a people they had both constructed as enemies and driven into radical opposition to the regime under which they had lived for centuries.â
- "As the assassin [Tehlirian, assassin of Talat, former Grand Vizier of the Ottoman Empire] picked up his revolver and descended to the street, he descends as the representative of justice versus brute force. He descends as the representative of humanity versus inhumanityâ
- Talat reportedly told friends with pride, âI have accomplished more toward solving the Armenian problem in 3 months than Abdul Hamid accomplished in 30 years.â
1. History of Armenian and the Armenian Genocide, what caused it and who were involved in it
2. An account of everything that happened during the First World War in the Ottoman Empire
3. An account of how Turkey eliminated its Christian minority by the way of massacre, exile and conversion over the years and specifically during the First World War
# Impressions
Effect of the book on me was grim and dark. The naked cruelty which the Armenians and other minorities of the Ottoman Empire experienced made me squirm with discomfort and empathize with them for the grave injustice visited upon them by fate and design. It showed me how dangerous success is when all around you is unsuccessful. But I still donât understand how this catastrophe could have been avoided. Maybe if the Ottoman government toned down the rhetoric of Kafir and threat against Armenians and instead relied upon their loyal millet statements more and tried to genuinely understand their problems and address them so that they would never need to go after other nations for aid, or to form an independent nations. This would have been possible if the empire was democratic. But it was not. Neither was its people. They were every bit intolerant and entitled as the government. Muslims of the empire knew that they were better stock than the Armenians, they knew that Armenians were a subordinate caste of people. They had more in common with worms and dogs than Turks. Now when I say this this would seem hard to believe for the ordinary ears. Because how can a whole people believe such vile bigotry. But that is only because the average person lives in a peaceful and prospering new world developing or developed nation, where we have found ways to connect and interact with each other in a way that we may see more things and dreams in common between various groups, rather than the profound sense of othering the Turks had towards the Armenians and other Christian minorities. As the Social media age accelerates and glorifies the differences and othering of communities again, we might yet again learn to understand the mindset and attitude of Turks who lived in Ottoman Empire during the genocide; why did they let it happen? How could they participate in such vile acts? And how they learned to forget and justify it so much so that even after so many years Armenians are yet to receive an acknowledgment let alone an apology.
## How I Discovered It
I discovered the book while I was searching for books on Armenian Genocide on Audible. I wanted to read about the genocide after hearing about it on Hardcore history Podcast by Dan Carlin
## Who Should Read It?
Must read for everyone who does not know about the Armenian Genocide and extermination of other minorities in the Ottoman Empire during the First World War. Because this is a balanced account providing insight from all angles, explaining the viewpoint of both perpetrators and the victims with as little bias as possible, which is really difficult to achieve considering the fact that this is one of the most contentious an hotly debated topics since early twentieth century. The contention cuts deeper than just claims about the specifics of the atrocities and genocide, but it even debates the very existence of such atrocities and genocide as the Turkish government has never officially accepted the Genocide.
Also everyone who is interested in the journey of humans as species should also read such books. Because it shows the extent of human cruelty and paints a picture of how division othering and polarization leads to committing of vile acts by relatively normal people
# How the Book Changed Me
It gave me deeper insight into
- What really led to the Armenian Genocide
- The manner in which genocide was conducted and who was responsible for it
- What were its repercussions
- How it affected Armenians as race
- How it affected the further course of history
# âď¸ My Top 3 Quotes
- âThe story here is that the genocide was neither religiously motivated, nor a struggle between two contending nationalisms (one of which destroyed the other), but rather the pathological response of desperate leaders who sought security against a people they had both constructed as enemies and driven into radical opposition to the regime under which they had lived for centuries.â
- "As the assassin [Tehlirian, assassin of Talat, former Grand Vizier of the Ottoman Empire] picked up his revolver and descended to the street, he descends as the representative of justice versus brute force. He descends as the representative of humanity versus inhumanityâ
- Talat reportedly told friends with pride, âI have accomplished more toward solving the Armenian problem in 3 months than Abdul Hamid accomplished in 30 years.â
eldaaurora97's review against another edition
dark
informative
reflective
medium-paced
4.25
 "The argument in this book begins, not with the primordial nations inevitably confronting one another and contesting sovereignty over a disputed land, but with an accelerating construction of different ethnoreligious communities within the complex context of an empire with its possibilities of multiple and hybrid identities and coexistence" (356)
The event which triggered the use of the word "genocide", "They can Live in the Desert but Nowhere else" focuses not only in the genocide, but why it occurred in such a tumultuous political context. Starting with the steadily declining Ottoman empire, Suny analyzes the relationship between the polity and the Armenians themselves, on which they tangle on each other and sometimes conflict. When the Great War broke out, Suny argues, this provided the tragic fuse to commit such a genocide, which would have consequences for everyone involved.
One thing which stood out in particular with this book is he focuses on the political aspects of the Ottoman empire. According to Suny, "empires in the modern age were caught between maintaining the privileges and distinctions that kept the traditional elites in reform along liberal lines that potentially could undermine the old ruling classes and the existing social order" (27) . In the Ottoman empire's case, it was a question of how to balance competing pieces between the different ethnic groups. While reforms began, it withered over time, thanks to preferential laws for Muslims and the elevation of the word "Turk" to a significance not seen before. It reminded me of "Adriatic", in how Kaplan mentioned how empires had a better hold on multiculturalism than in nation-states. Despite the reforms, was there another way to handle it all?
I also was curious about Armenian national identity in this context, especially with how today, there are more Armenians outside the country than inside it. The first Christian kingdom in the world, Armenia had been conquered multiple times and its people scattered. "Most Armenians were poor peasants who knew little about their past, except fragments passed down in the oral traditions and the religious messages of the clergy" (39). They had their own identity, but the development of a nationalism. One thing I learned was how despite popular history, Armenians integrated well into Ottoman society--"Many of them spoke Turkish, Kurdish, or Arabic along with or rather than Armenian: many, perhaps most, were bi- or tri-lingual" (45). Some of them managed to garner higher roles in urban centers, to the point where the Muslim majority resented them. While it didn't provide a good excuse to kill them all, I could see where the fault-lines occurred as Armenians became more divorced from Ottoman society.
One curious thing was how much the Great Powers took eye to the Armenian question, but didn't know how to approach it. They had an early history of supporting Christians in the Balkans, and wanted to support the Armenians in different ways. However, "sympathy for the plight of the Armenians was widespread in the international public sphere, but humanitarian sentiments rarely led to meaningful action" (137). When the war began and the Armenian condition got worse, there were some more attempts to get help, but were drowned out. I'm honestly surprised how much the German government was complicit in the Armenian genocide, from collaborating with the Ottomans to hiding notable Young Turks after the war. How much did that impact their approach to the Holocaust?
Suny builds this story up to the climax of the deportations and genocide, then lets it down with the conclusion. "By the end of the war 90 percent of Ottoman Armenians were gone, killed, deported to the deserts of Syria, or refugees in the Caucasus or Middle east" (347). The flow of his information points to this sad conclusion, even though there were moments which could've prevented the genocide. This approach, combined with his research, makes up for a compelling book, albeit a bit dry at times.Â
The event which triggered the use of the word "genocide", "They can Live in the Desert but Nowhere else" focuses not only in the genocide, but why it occurred in such a tumultuous political context. Starting with the steadily declining Ottoman empire, Suny analyzes the relationship between the polity and the Armenians themselves, on which they tangle on each other and sometimes conflict. When the Great War broke out, Suny argues, this provided the tragic fuse to commit such a genocide, which would have consequences for everyone involved.
One thing which stood out in particular with this book is he focuses on the political aspects of the Ottoman empire. According to Suny, "empires in the modern age were caught between maintaining the privileges and distinctions that kept the traditional elites in reform along liberal lines that potentially could undermine the old ruling classes and the existing social order" (27) . In the Ottoman empire's case, it was a question of how to balance competing pieces between the different ethnic groups. While reforms began, it withered over time, thanks to preferential laws for Muslims and the elevation of the word "Turk" to a significance not seen before. It reminded me of "Adriatic", in how Kaplan mentioned how empires had a better hold on multiculturalism than in nation-states. Despite the reforms, was there another way to handle it all?
I also was curious about Armenian national identity in this context, especially with how today, there are more Armenians outside the country than inside it. The first Christian kingdom in the world, Armenia had been conquered multiple times and its people scattered. "Most Armenians were poor peasants who knew little about their past, except fragments passed down in the oral traditions and the religious messages of the clergy" (39). They had their own identity, but the development of a nationalism. One thing I learned was how despite popular history, Armenians integrated well into Ottoman society--"Many of them spoke Turkish, Kurdish, or Arabic along with or rather than Armenian: many, perhaps most, were bi- or tri-lingual" (45). Some of them managed to garner higher roles in urban centers, to the point where the Muslim majority resented them. While it didn't provide a good excuse to kill them all, I could see where the fault-lines occurred as Armenians became more divorced from Ottoman society.
One curious thing was how much the Great Powers took eye to the Armenian question, but didn't know how to approach it. They had an early history of supporting Christians in the Balkans, and wanted to support the Armenians in different ways. However, "sympathy for the plight of the Armenians was widespread in the international public sphere, but humanitarian sentiments rarely led to meaningful action" (137). When the war began and the Armenian condition got worse, there were some more attempts to get help, but were drowned out. I'm honestly surprised how much the German government was complicit in the Armenian genocide, from collaborating with the Ottomans to hiding notable Young Turks after the war. How much did that impact their approach to the Holocaust?
Suny builds this story up to the climax of the deportations and genocide, then lets it down with the conclusion. "By the end of the war 90 percent of Ottoman Armenians were gone, killed, deported to the deserts of Syria, or refugees in the Caucasus or Middle east" (347). The flow of his information points to this sad conclusion, even though there were moments which could've prevented the genocide. This approach, combined with his research, makes up for a compelling book, albeit a bit dry at times.Â
Content Warnings
Graphic: Death, Violence, Genocide, War, and Hate crime
Moderate: Sexual violence
marlfox24's review
dark
emotional
informative
sad
tense
medium-paced
4.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Genocide
Moderate: Rape, Child abuse, and Child death
beejai's review against another edition
4.0
This was definitely not an easy read but it is definitely a book that needed to be written. From cover to cover, the reader is bombarded by detail, statistics and documented fact after fact after fact. This is definitely the most meticulously researched book I have read on the subject of the Armenian genocide. Sometimes the sheer level of research presented gets in the way of an easy flowing narrative to bog the reader down. This isn't a good book for the casual reader on the subject. For that, I would recommend The Burning Tigris.
Like I said, however, this book is one that needed to be written. It came out on the centennial of the forgotten Armenian genocide and since I live here in Turkey, I understand how pervasive the denial of what happened here still is at every level in society. This mountain of irrefutable facts flies in the face of the lies the Turkish government to this day continues to shovel out to a public that doesn't care to know the truth of what their grandparents and great-grandparents did.
Ronald Grigor Suny wraps up his book with a few conclusions that left me scratching my head. He claims that this genocide was carried out by only a few masterminds and villains and that the public at large was not complicit. He also says that these killings were politically and not religiously motivated.
While there are certainly a few villains that deserve a higher level of ignominy, it is clear that hundreds of thousands of Kurds and Turks participated in the atrocities that happened around the turning of the twentieth century. They were the ones who occupied the homes, looted the shops, raped and married young women and adopted the children ripped from their parents' arms. While I understand that certain cultural-political situations like in 1930's Germany and in the American Jim Crow South can lead otherwise good decent people to do heinous acts, that does not let them off for the acts they have committed (or even their knowing silence in the face of evil).
There was also a very strong religious motivation for the crimes that were committed. While it was not the only motivation, nearly every single eyewitness account he quotes time and time again point to the Muslim hatred of Christians so present on the Anatolian peninsula at this time period. Just because there were other factors at work here does not in any way make the religious motivation less of a factor. A fatwa was declared, jihad was called, and in cities throughout the Anatolian peninsula men answered the call by killing their neighbors. There is no getting around this tragic truth.
Like I said, however, this book is one that needed to be written. It came out on the centennial of the forgotten Armenian genocide and since I live here in Turkey, I understand how pervasive the denial of what happened here still is at every level in society. This mountain of irrefutable facts flies in the face of the lies the Turkish government to this day continues to shovel out to a public that doesn't care to know the truth of what their grandparents and great-grandparents did.
Ronald Grigor Suny wraps up his book with a few conclusions that left me scratching my head. He claims that this genocide was carried out by only a few masterminds and villains and that the public at large was not complicit. He also says that these killings were politically and not religiously motivated.
While there are certainly a few villains that deserve a higher level of ignominy, it is clear that hundreds of thousands of Kurds and Turks participated in the atrocities that happened around the turning of the twentieth century. They were the ones who occupied the homes, looted the shops, raped and married young women and adopted the children ripped from their parents' arms. While I understand that certain cultural-political situations like in 1930's Germany and in the American Jim Crow South can lead otherwise good decent people to do heinous acts, that does not let them off for the acts they have committed (or even their knowing silence in the face of evil).
There was also a very strong religious motivation for the crimes that were committed. While it was not the only motivation, nearly every single eyewitness account he quotes time and time again point to the Muslim hatred of Christians so present on the Anatolian peninsula at this time period. Just because there were other factors at work here does not in any way make the religious motivation less of a factor. A fatwa was declared, jihad was called, and in cities throughout the Anatolian peninsula men answered the call by killing their neighbors. There is no getting around this tragic truth.