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jugglingpup's review against another edition
5.0
To see more reviews check out MI Book Reviews.
So this book was assigned reading for a Psychology AP class in high school. I did not read it then. I head read the first two chapters, but then craziness happened and I was no longer in the class. I never forgot that I needed to read it. I found a copy at the Bay Area Free Book Exchange so I was really excited that I had no more excuses to not read this book.
The book follows a group of six people who go to visit a community known as Walden Two. There are two young couples and two professors. The couples are pretty interchangeable throughout the novel, but the professors are drastically different. The writing was not over the top amazing, it was a great explanation of what behavioral psychology in practice could look like if it was used to move towards perfection instead of just stopping behavior. B. F. Skinner is a god of psychology, but as an English major I would not have copied his papers. The book is fascinating not because of the writing, but because of the ideas that he presents as Frazier (the founder of Walden two).
The book raised so many moral questions. Is it ok to get ahead if it means hurting a group of people? How about only one? What if an entire community gets ahead by hurting a group? or just one? What are the implications of teaching children? How can we improve the school system? Is it possible to improve the school system or should we just overhaul it and create a new system?
This book raises more questions than it ever answers. It answers everything of course, but that in itself raises more questions. There were things that Skinner either did not expect for me to question (because he clearly wrote it for me) or he didn’t want to include them, like what about gay couples, transsexuals, the people who did not want to be part of the community but were raised in it (though Frazier thought it would be very rare that anyone would choose to leave Walden Two)?
By the end of the book, I wanted to join Walden Two. If it were a reality I would very happily join. My only issue would be having a dog. Walden Two doesn’t waste resources on pets. Though I may ask for the job of taking care of the herding dogs.
So this book was assigned reading for a Psychology AP class in high school. I did not read it then. I head read the first two chapters, but then craziness happened and I was no longer in the class. I never forgot that I needed to read it. I found a copy at the Bay Area Free Book Exchange so I was really excited that I had no more excuses to not read this book.
The book follows a group of six people who go to visit a community known as Walden Two. There are two young couples and two professors. The couples are pretty interchangeable throughout the novel, but the professors are drastically different. The writing was not over the top amazing, it was a great explanation of what behavioral psychology in practice could look like if it was used to move towards perfection instead of just stopping behavior. B. F. Skinner is a god of psychology, but as an English major I would not have copied his papers. The book is fascinating not because of the writing, but because of the ideas that he presents as Frazier (the founder of Walden two).
The book raised so many moral questions. Is it ok to get ahead if it means hurting a group of people? How about only one? What if an entire community gets ahead by hurting a group? or just one? What are the implications of teaching children? How can we improve the school system? Is it possible to improve the school system or should we just overhaul it and create a new system?
This book raises more questions than it ever answers. It answers everything of course, but that in itself raises more questions. There were things that Skinner either did not expect for me to question (because he clearly wrote it for me) or he didn’t want to include them, like what about gay couples, transsexuals, the people who did not want to be part of the community but were raised in it (though Frazier thought it would be very rare that anyone would choose to leave Walden Two)?
By the end of the book, I wanted to join Walden Two. If it were a reality I would very happily join. My only issue would be having a dog. Walden Two doesn’t waste resources on pets. Though I may ask for the job of taking care of the herding dogs.
nisherwood's review against another edition
4.0
3.5
I rather expected to come out of this thinking that Skinner should’ve stuck to psychology, but it was compelling as far as narratives-wherein-characters-dialog-about-the-author’s-beliefs go. Cool utopia too, definitely read in correspondence with The Dispossessed.
I rather expected to come out of this thinking that Skinner should’ve stuck to psychology, but it was compelling as far as narratives-wherein-characters-dialog-about-the-author’s-beliefs go. Cool utopia too, definitely read in correspondence with The Dispossessed.
rorysreading's review against another edition
informative
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
4.0
peregrine_'s review against another edition
challenging
dark
informative
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? N/A
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
tracycarter's review against another edition
This book is the author’s presentation of what HE believes would be a perfect society. It is definitely a philosophical opinion piece that I believe would be best suited for academic debate and discussion.
kristenmtan's review against another edition
2.0
2.5/5 i thjnk???
the first two thirds were ass and also this was just more of a manifesto loosely wrapped in a fiction but the political commentary was honestly really interesting
the first two thirds were ass and also this was just more of a manifesto loosely wrapped in a fiction but the political commentary was honestly really interesting
bogdanbalostin's review against another edition
5.0
Re-read: I find the ideas more fascinating this time around, and I can bear the dry prose and annoying characters better. Unfortunately, I can see the flaws of the ideas for the first generation building Walden Two. It's indeed possible and we should strive to change the evil human nature towards "good behavior" but we will never accomplish it with 100% efficiency.
In another book, Life 3.0 I first encountered the idea that simple animals are Life 1.0 which means they change very slowly only through direct genetic evolution and humans are Life 2.0 because they can improve both their body (genetic) and their mind (use of tools and cultural). I believe we are only scratching the surface in terms of what is possible culturally and in terms of organization at a societal level.
Original Review: As a novel, this book deserves less than a one-star rating. There, I said it, and I think even B.F. Skinner would agree with me if we both lived in Walden Two.
Now let me tell you first why it's an awful novel. Characters are caricatures, awkward dialogue and descriptions, no plot, literally, nothing happens in this novel. It's just a long dialogue without any kind of consequences. So if recently you've only read books that grab you and never let you go, a bestseller or a page-turner, think again before you start reading this. Good news, a page-turner is written using behavioral science, though in the way marketing (and manipulation) works.
Anyway, on the brilliance of the book, the philosophical treaty, the pornography of a behaviorist (as one reviewer said). The thing is reading this book made me want to cry. With the advancement of technology, nothing changed. The governments are even worse than before, all the problems we had 100 or 50 years ago, we still have them only on a greater scale. You would think a democratic government would improve with time, but unfortunately, when Skinner describe the government of the 1950s he is practically describing the worst problems of today's government. It's like we don't learn. Quite the contrary, behavioral science was criticized until it disappear from the mainstream medium but the techniques are still used to control people. What Skinner proposes is to let people know they don't have free will (so to speak, there are many kinds of will) and help them make the best decision for the community. That sounds controversial and dictatorial, so it was impossible. Instead, nowadays, everyone tries to control the population (with great success) while lying that we are free to do anything. Just look at clickbait title, aggressive marketing, emotion-based marketing, democratic elections (!!!), media manipulation.
The thing is if you read this book, do it with an open mind. Even I was shocked at some suggestions because they come against my free spirit and the free choice of man. I'm not going to write them here because if you don't read the whole book, you will not get the right meaning. It happened to me, I was curious about what kind of society Walden Two would be without reading the book and my view was skewed by my current culture when I read a summary of the points that made Walden Two work.
In another book, Life 3.0 I first encountered the idea that simple animals are Life 1.0 which means they change very slowly only through direct genetic evolution and humans are Life 2.0 because they can improve both their body (genetic) and their mind (use of tools and cultural). I believe we are only scratching the surface in terms of what is possible culturally and in terms of organization at a societal level.
Original Review: As a novel, this book deserves less than a one-star rating. There, I said it, and I think even B.F. Skinner would agree with me if we both lived in Walden Two.
Now let me tell you first why it's an awful novel. Characters are caricatures, awkward dialogue and descriptions, no plot, literally, nothing happens in this novel. It's just a long dialogue without any kind of consequences. So if recently you've only read books that grab you and never let you go, a bestseller or a page-turner, think again before you start reading this. Good news, a page-turner is written using behavioral science, though in the way marketing (and manipulation) works.
Anyway, on the brilliance of the book, the philosophical treaty, the pornography of a behaviorist (as one reviewer said). The thing is reading this book made me want to cry. With the advancement of technology, nothing changed. The governments are even worse than before, all the problems we had 100 or 50 years ago, we still have them only on a greater scale. You would think a democratic government would improve with time, but unfortunately, when Skinner describe the government of the 1950s he is practically describing the worst problems of today's government. It's like we don't learn. Quite the contrary, behavioral science was criticized until it disappear from the mainstream medium but the techniques are still used to control people. What Skinner proposes is to let people know they don't have free will (so to speak, there are many kinds of will) and help them make the best decision for the community. That sounds controversial and dictatorial, so it was impossible. Instead, nowadays, everyone tries to control the population (with great success) while lying that we are free to do anything. Just look at clickbait title, aggressive marketing, emotion-based marketing, democratic elections (!!!), media manipulation.
The thing is if you read this book, do it with an open mind. Even I was shocked at some suggestions because they come against my free spirit and the free choice of man. I'm not going to write them here because if you don't read the whole book, you will not get the right meaning. It happened to me, I was curious about what kind of society Walden Two would be without reading the book and my view was skewed by my current culture when I read a summary of the points that made Walden Two work.
caro6408's review against another edition
challenging
inspiring
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
4.0
elise_516's review against another edition
challenging
informative
mysterious
reflective
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.25
jessicaleza's review against another edition
2.0
Utopian fiction and a psychology classic. B.F. Skinner is not a skilled fiction writer and this should be read as a curiosity in the history of psychology.
“A world which has been made beautiful and exciting by artists, composers, writers, and performers is as important for survival as one which satisfies biological needs.”
"You can't encourage art with money alone. What you need is a culture. You need a real opportunity for young artists. The career must be economically sound and socially acceptable, and prizes won't do that. And you need appreciation - there must be audiences, not to pay the bills, but to enjoy." (p. 80)
"The world will never be wholly known, and man can't help trying to know more and more of it." (p. 116)
“A world which has been made beautiful and exciting by artists, composers, writers, and performers is as important for survival as one which satisfies biological needs.”
"You can't encourage art with money alone. What you need is a culture. You need a real opportunity for young artists. The career must be economically sound and socially acceptable, and prizes won't do that. And you need appreciation - there must be audiences, not to pay the bills, but to enjoy." (p. 80)
"The world will never be wholly known, and man can't help trying to know more and more of it." (p. 116)