yuiscool's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
thedadsie's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
tense
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
2.5
beorn_101's review against another edition
2.0
This was an odd bag. The first half had some interesting bits, but was incredibly slow, and did next to nothing to actually move the narrative forward, or even really give us more information on the Heresy.
Having Navigators and an Astropath be some of the main focus was an interesting choice. We get a nice view of Magnus in the book.
But the entire first half is just sort of there. The second half picks up the pace, taking the characters it has been meandering with, and running into a action packed prison escape, while trying to solve a mystery of a message to an Astropath.
Moments of this chase are really amazing. But, overall even by the end I sort of found myself wondering so what.
If this was anime it would be considered filler. Filler that has some entertaining moments, but largely you can skip without missing much.
The only thing I really enjoyed was referencing and exploring warriors from Terra's past.
Overall, a very meh book.
Having Navigators and an Astropath be some of the main focus was an interesting choice. We get a nice view of Magnus in the book.
But the entire first half is just sort of there. The second half picks up the pace, taking the characters it has been meandering with, and running into a action packed prison escape, while trying to solve a mystery of a message to an Astropath.
Moments of this chase are really amazing. But, overall even by the end I sort of found myself wondering so what.
If this was anime it would be considered filler. Filler that has some entertaining moments, but largely you can skip without missing much.
The only thing I really enjoyed was referencing and exploring warriors from Terra's past.
Overall, a very meh book.
farilian's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
fastasashark's review against another edition
adventurous
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
3.75
I finished this but am still not sure how to rate it - either 3.75 or 4/5 stars. I enjoyed all the plot lines and characters and there were a lot of very interesting tie-ins and revelations. Getting all that info about Astropaths/the Telepathica and City of Sight was very cool. First time we really get an inside look. There were just some lore inconsistencies or timeline questions that bugged me. For example some of the combat outcomes and relative strengths didn't make sense. I'm used to Astartes being so powerful even human mutants shouldn't last more than mere seconds hand-to-hand or be able to match their speed. Thinking back to Nemesis, for example, where it was a novelty just for the rage killer to be able to say that he finally managed to kill an Astartes. There were moments where both Astartes and Custodes seemed weirdly underpowered and it bugged me. Good read otherwise though!
f4ustu5's review against another edition
emotional
relaxing
sad
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? N/A
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
warragh's review against another edition
4.0
The Outcast Dead takes place on Terra and has a very unique focus. There are no wars, not glorious conquests and precious few battles, instead the book focuses on Astropaths, more specifically on a single Astropath who survives after the ship he is own gets invaded by demons and then, after getting back to the Astropath City, stumbles upon the most important secret in the Galaxy which everyone around him wants.
This is a very atypical Warhammer book for a variety of reasons. First of all, its main characters are Astropaths (and a Navigator), not the usual Space Marines/Primarchs of most other Horus Heresy novels. Second of all, this is much more story and character focus, with very few action scenes. This leads to a slower book (the main conflict of the book doesn't arise until around halfway through) but on the other hand helps it to build the main character into a believable person, with visible growth throughout.
However, this focus on the story and the lore comes with the caveat that the book takes a series of Major liberties with the established canon and timeline of events. This wasn't a big issue for me personally because once I understood that I just ignored the "bigger picture" and just focused on the story contained within these pages. But I can see why it would be a dealbreaker for others. In the same vein, there are several details which are unexplained and underdeveloped.
Overall I'd say that this was a strange read. A very atypical 40k book with a strong human protagonist let down by some very confusing canon conflicts and a ton of underdeveloped context.
This is a very atypical Warhammer book for a variety of reasons. First of all, its main characters are Astropaths (and a Navigator), not the usual Space Marines/Primarchs of most other Horus Heresy novels. Second of all, this is much more story and character focus, with very few action scenes. This leads to a slower book (the main conflict of the book doesn't arise until around halfway through) but on the other hand helps it to build the main character into a believable person, with visible growth throughout.
However, this focus on the story and the lore comes with the caveat that the book takes a series of Major liberties with the established canon and timeline of events. This wasn't a big issue for me personally because once I understood that I just ignored the "bigger picture" and just focused on the story contained within these pages. But I can see why it would be a dealbreaker for others. In the same vein, there are several details which are unexplained and underdeveloped.
Overall I'd say that this was a strange read. A very atypical 40k book with a strong human protagonist let down by some very confusing canon conflicts and a ton of underdeveloped context.
drwilko's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
tense
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
3.75
simonmee's review against another edition
2.0
The Outcast Dead is the one that stuffed up the timeline.
Made Custodes killable by two Space Marines, or by an unarmoured and barely armed Space Marine, or by a homesick human with an itchy trigger.
But that’s fine. They fixed the timeline part at least, in separate short story audiobook about something completely different. So no big deal, apparently.
So what does The Outcast Dead serve? Plot or character?
Plot
‘Because sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning.’
The McGuffin here is a vision of the grimdark future. If the traitors get it, they will win... ...somehow. Never mind the Alpha Legion have already seen a vision of the future. The dream never makes it to the traitors, instead THE EMPEROR OF MANKIND gets the vision and says "well, doesn't help me, but at least my future crippled visage is a secret for now."
Inspiring stuff.
And, unfortunately, it creates a problem worse than the (barely) fixed timeline issue: The McGuffin shows THE EMPEROR OF MANKIND his showdown with Horus, which implicitly depowers certain critical scenes in that showdown (which exist in the wider lore, but are still to be written in this series). If whoever writes that scene is going to be faithful to The Outcast Dead, the THE EMPEROR OF MANKIND’s emotional range during the most famous and most emotionally charged setpiece in the Warhammer 40K universe is going to be:
“Seen it. Seen it. Yep… …seeeeeeeeeennnnn it."
The plot that's not only dull within the story, but actively dulls the climax of the Horus Heresy, an event laden with 10,000 years of consequences.
I admit is not a big issue in the long run, because it can be sidestepped or ignored as needed, but it does speak to the lack of care in this book.
The second half connects poorly with the first half, and both halves are constrained by a lack of space. The Thunder Warrior subplot lacks the calcium to even be called barebones. The Deus Ex Machina in the final fight is separated by nearly the entire book from its setup, which blunts its emotional impact. McNeill emphasises the recklessness of Ferrus Manus, even though it is irrelevant to what happened at Istvaan V – Manus becomes a beheaded Chekov’s gun.
There are good setpieces and moments of cleverness and interesting world building, with a heavy emphasis on the horror. But McNeill is a good writer, so good setpieces, cleverness and worldbuilding is a minimum expectation.
Character
Ten thousand deaths screaming in his head had unhinged his mind for a time, and he wasn’t entirely sure it had returned to him intact.
The Outcast Dead isn't the first, or last, Warhammer 40K book to not worry about coherency in plot. However, it doesn't worry about character much either. There’s a few other characters than those listed below, but a guy like Nagasena is clearly going to be used elsewhere and isn’t worth mentioning one way or the other.
Kai Zulane
He’s the best astropath in the Imperium, but damaged goods. But give him time and tutelage and he’ll be back, baby! Wait… …he’s McGuffinised damaged goods again… …but then he’s back, baby! Back… …having a dream about a chess game and how it’s not his fault everyone died on his starship, which no one really appeared to blame him for anyway… …annnnddddddddddddd he’s dead.
The lead character of the The Outcast Dead teaches us about astropathy from the viewpoint of a guy who is no longer able to do astropathy. Unsurprisingly, he’s not very interesting.
Roxanne Castana, Athena Diyos, Aniq Sarahina, Adept Hiriko
In [b:Mechanicum|2941259|Mechanicum (The Horus Heresy #9)|Graham McNeill|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1348447118l/2941259._SY75_.jpg|2970690], McNeill solved the problem with his portrayals of female characters in [b:Fulgrim|957931|Fulgrim (The Horus Heresy #5)|Graham McNeill|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1403985069l/957931._SY75_.jpg|942841] by writing them as males. Here, he doesn’t write much about them at all, even though they each have backgrounds that could carry the story, or any story, better than Kai. The treatments of Roxanne and Athena are particularly egregious as they both share deliberate commonalities with Kai. I get all these characters are meant to be waystations on the path of Kai’s character development, but Kai has no actual development! I wish McNeill had spent more time at the waystations.
The Outcast Dead
In respect of those seven escaped Space Marines, yeah, maybe, especially with Atharva of the Thousand Sons. But they primarily fight and die, and there’s a real disconnect about what their (and again, especially Atharva) stated motivation of escaping back to Horus and their involvement with McGuffinised Kai, especially especially Artharva’s final sacrifice so Kai can have a nice dream about a chess game and not be blamed for something that never seemed to be his fault.
THE EMPEROR OF MANKIND
The most consistent thing about The Outcast Dead with the wider storyline, particularly [b:The First Heretic|7922982|The First Heretic (The Horus Heresy #14)|Aaron Dembski-Bowden|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1280760489l/7922982._SY75_.jpg|11228723], is that the THE EMPEROR OF MANKIND is a dick. He literally pops into Kai’s dreams, takes what he needs, then says well, “our game is done”, hope you don’t have any hard feelings Kai for torturing and attempting to murder you. Also, lol at everyone else around you being turned to pulp.
I do appreciate the consistency here.
Rogal Dorn
‘I know that well enough, but Lord Dorn is impatient for news of Ferrus Manus’s fleet. And he has a gun.’
I think I’m meant to like Rogal Dorn. At least that is what all the Warhammer 40K wiki sites and YouTube lore videos keep telling me. But to date he’s been on a spectrum from running from boring to overly harsh, with The Outcast Dead extending that range to: awful.
Atharva shook his head. ‘He is not yours to command.’
Dorn laughed, though Kai heard uncertainty in the sound. ‘Of course he is,’ said Dorn, drawing a vast pistol of chased gold and ebony. ‘I am the Emperor’s chosen champion. Everything on Terra is mine to command.’
Dorn exists as a threat, rather than a personality.
The Outcast Dead is the worst Horus Heresy book so far. It’s fun in parts but it is overlong and inconsistent and it is not clear what the book serves.
Made Custodes killable by two Space Marines, or by an unarmoured and barely armed Space Marine, or by a homesick human with an itchy trigger.
But that’s fine. They fixed the timeline part at least, in separate short story audiobook about something completely different. So no big deal, apparently.
So what does The Outcast Dead serve? Plot or character?
Plot
‘Because sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning.’
The McGuffin here is a vision of the grimdark future. If the traitors get it, they will win... ...somehow. Never mind the Alpha Legion have already seen a vision of the future. The dream never makes it to the traitors, instead THE EMPEROR OF MANKIND gets the vision and says "well, doesn't help me, but at least my future crippled visage is a secret for now."
Inspiring stuff.
And, unfortunately, it creates a problem worse than the (barely) fixed timeline issue: The McGuffin shows THE EMPEROR OF MANKIND his showdown with Horus, which implicitly depowers certain critical scenes in that showdown (which exist in the wider lore, but are still to be written in this series). If whoever writes that scene is going to be faithful to The Outcast Dead, the THE EMPEROR OF MANKIND’s emotional range during the most famous and most emotionally charged setpiece in the Warhammer 40K universe is going to be:
“Seen it. Seen it. Yep… …seeeeeeeeeennnnn it."
The plot that's not only dull within the story, but actively dulls the climax of the Horus Heresy, an event laden with 10,000 years of consequences.
I admit is not a big issue in the long run, because it can be sidestepped or ignored as needed, but it does speak to the lack of care in this book.
The second half connects poorly with the first half, and both halves are constrained by a lack of space. The Thunder Warrior subplot lacks the calcium to even be called barebones. The Deus Ex Machina in the final fight is separated by nearly the entire book from its setup, which blunts its emotional impact. McNeill emphasises the recklessness of Ferrus Manus, even though it is irrelevant to what happened at Istvaan V – Manus becomes a beheaded Chekov’s gun.
There are good setpieces and moments of cleverness and interesting world building, with a heavy emphasis on the horror. But McNeill is a good writer, so good setpieces, cleverness and worldbuilding is a minimum expectation.
Character
Ten thousand deaths screaming in his head had unhinged his mind for a time, and he wasn’t entirely sure it had returned to him intact.
The Outcast Dead isn't the first, or last, Warhammer 40K book to not worry about coherency in plot. However, it doesn't worry about character much either. There’s a few other characters than those listed below, but a guy like Nagasena is clearly going to be used elsewhere and isn’t worth mentioning one way or the other.
Kai Zulane
He’s the best astropath in the Imperium, but damaged goods. But give him time and tutelage and he’ll be back, baby! Wait… …he’s McGuffinised damaged goods again… …but then he’s back, baby! Back… …having a dream about a chess game and how it’s not his fault everyone died on his starship, which no one really appeared to blame him for anyway… …annnnddddddddddddd he’s dead.
The lead character of the The Outcast Dead teaches us about astropathy from the viewpoint of a guy who is no longer able to do astropathy. Unsurprisingly, he’s not very interesting.
Roxanne Castana, Athena Diyos, Aniq Sarahina, Adept Hiriko
In [b:Mechanicum|2941259|Mechanicum (The Horus Heresy #9)|Graham McNeill|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1348447118l/2941259._SY75_.jpg|2970690], McNeill solved the problem with his portrayals of female characters in [b:Fulgrim|957931|Fulgrim (The Horus Heresy #5)|Graham McNeill|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1403985069l/957931._SY75_.jpg|942841] by writing them as males. Here, he doesn’t write much about them at all, even though they each have backgrounds that could carry the story, or any story, better than Kai. The treatments of Roxanne and Athena are particularly egregious as they both share deliberate commonalities with Kai. I get all these characters are meant to be waystations on the path of Kai’s character development, but Kai has no actual development! I wish McNeill had spent more time at the waystations.
The Outcast Dead
In respect of those seven escaped Space Marines, yeah, maybe, especially with Atharva of the Thousand Sons. But they primarily fight and die, and there’s a real disconnect about what their (and again, especially Atharva) stated motivation of escaping back to Horus and their involvement with McGuffinised Kai, especially especially Artharva’s final sacrifice so Kai can have a nice dream about a chess game and not be blamed for something that never seemed to be his fault.
THE EMPEROR OF MANKIND
The most consistent thing about The Outcast Dead with the wider storyline, particularly [b:The First Heretic|7922982|The First Heretic (The Horus Heresy #14)|Aaron Dembski-Bowden|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1280760489l/7922982._SY75_.jpg|11228723], is that the THE EMPEROR OF MANKIND is a dick. He literally pops into Kai’s dreams, takes what he needs, then says well, “our game is done”, hope you don’t have any hard feelings Kai for torturing and attempting to murder you. Also, lol at everyone else around you being turned to pulp.
I do appreciate the consistency here.
Rogal Dorn
‘I know that well enough, but Lord Dorn is impatient for news of Ferrus Manus’s fleet. And he has a gun.’
I think I’m meant to like Rogal Dorn. At least that is what all the Warhammer 40K wiki sites and YouTube lore videos keep telling me. But to date he’s been on a spectrum from running from boring to overly harsh, with The Outcast Dead extending that range to: awful.
Atharva shook his head. ‘He is not yours to command.’
Dorn laughed, though Kai heard uncertainty in the sound. ‘Of course he is,’ said Dorn, drawing a vast pistol of chased gold and ebony. ‘I am the Emperor’s chosen champion. Everything on Terra is mine to command.’
Dorn exists as a threat, rather than a personality.
The Outcast Dead is the worst Horus Heresy book so far. It’s fun in parts but it is overlong and inconsistent and it is not clear what the book serves.