lizmarkus's review against another edition
adventurous
mysterious
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
3.0
rubylev's review against another edition
4.0
I loved 90% of this book and hated 10% of it. Pullman is such a good writer that his digressions and weird world-breaking mostly work for me. A lot of this book is a bummer, but I really enjoyed reading it, and then there's two big things that made me totally furious (if you read it you know!). Pullman still has interesting things to say about this world and Lyra is still a great character. Read this book and then come talk to me about it.
theinquisitxor's review against another edition
4.0
"You used to be optimistic. You used to think that whatever we did would turn out well. Even after we came back from the North, you used to think that. Now you're cautious, you're anxious... you're pessimistic."
She knew he was right, but it wasn't right that he should speak to her accusingly, as if it was something to blame her for.
"I used to be young," was all she could find to say.
He made no response.
Okay Mr. Pullman, you've done it again. You've broken my heart again and there's nothing to fix it except for the third book in this trilogy. This is the continuation of Lyra's journey about 10 years after the events of His Dark Materials. I've heard that this is a story for people who read HDM as children but are now reading The Book of Dust as adults. And I couldn't agree more. It deals with adult themes and while Pullman still has the effortless way of drawing the reader into Lyra's world, you must tread carefully in this story. Even thought HDM is one of the darker, more theme heavy children's/ya books, TSC takes it to a new level. It explores psychology, mental health, trauma, politics, espionage and lies.
This trilogy seems to be somewhat mirroring HDM in terms of construction. It's not until the second installment of the series that the central plot really kicks in. While The Golden Compass and La Belle Sauvage are crucial to their respective trilogies, Pullman writes so that the second books are where the full stakes and plot is revealed. He also ends both installments on a large cliffhanger. I'm assuming that the third book will be even longer and more broad than TSC (if that's even possible). This series definitely isn't His Dark Materials. It doesn't contain the same elements of magic or destiny, or angels and gods. It's more about politics and world changing schemes and intellectual ideas. And it's much more rooted in the physical, tangible world. Just keep your mind open while reading this that this series is different from HDM. That being said I'm going to get into many Spoilers so stop reading if you don't want to be spoiled!
*SPOILERS*
The Lyra of this book is not the same Lyra we fell in love with in HDM. This Lyra is 20 years old and she has many issues. The trauma of her childhood seems to have finally caught up with her, and has left her as a depressed, anxious, stressed college student. Her constant state of melancholy and slight depression is such a strong contrast with her confident, energetic, optimism of her childhood. But it's relatable. I feel like most twenty year olds feel at least a little like Lyra does at the beginning of this story. Where does all our energy and hopefulness go when we're 10/11/12 years old, compared to when we're 20/21/22?
She has realized how unsure her future is, how utterly alone and traumatized she has been left. This book is an interesting look into the mind of a heroine years after the original events took place. It's an interesting look into what events of HDM she thinks of more often, and what events she seems to have tried to forget. Her separation from Pan and time spent in the Land of the Dead seem to have stuck with her well. So had her last few days with Will. Other events she seems to have tried to forget. The battle between the forces of 'God' and Lord Asriel, as well as times where she and Will would just travel through random worlds does not seem like memories she visits too often. Which I find interesting, especially how Lyra has seemed to give up on the fantastical and magical elements at the beginning.
Her changed relationship with Pan was heartbreaking. But Lyra had changed so much as a person, that a fractured relationship with her literal soul was bound to happen. She had basically turned into someone unrecognizable to Pan (which was none of her fault) but they both needed to figure themselves out in this story. Again, the cliffhanger leaves a lot to wonder, but I'm hoping for the best.
And Will... Lyra still has not gotten over Will. A part of me hopes, hopes that they will somehow find each other again and be together. I know the chances are almost nonexistent, but I also really loved Will as a character, and I want to know how and what he is doing. Even if they never see each other again, I want to know if he's alright. A small part of me hopes that there is something in that desert, that can lead Lyra back into Will's (our) world. I know HDM is about making the Republic of Heaven where you are, and living a good life because nothing else is guaranteed. Which is something Lyra has kind of forgotten, and I hope Pullman bring it back up again? The lines Lyra says about Will, "I think about him every day. Probably every hour. He's still the center of my life" just hurt so much.
I love some of the social issues, and how they they parallel the social issues of our world. It makes sense that issues would be at least vaguely similar, since they are parallel worlds. The fleeing of refugees out of the Middle East, governments trying to subtly pass laws that infringe upon freedoms, new thoughts, radical movements and shootings. All of these parallel current issues in our world.
I also liked Lyra's journey in this book. It was much more of a journey she takes alone. Even though she has many people to help her on her way towards the Middle East and Asia, it is a fundamentally solitary journey, and a great metaphor for your time as a young adult just trying to find your way around in the world. While in the original series, she is going North (and Northern lands will always have a soft spot in me) I really like the way she is journeying into the East this time.
I hope some of the themes and results of HDM finds its way into the third installment. The concept of the Republic of Heaven, free will and no divine authority would be so interesting to explore as a consequence, but for most of the book we get a depressed, confused and scared Lyra. Which is fine, horrible things happened to her, and it's understandable why she is like the way she is. I just feel like the big cosmic battle at the end of The Amber Spyglass and the changes that happened to the universe are not as consequential as they should have been.
My main complaint is: Why does the Magisterium still exist in Lyra's word? In TAS, there is a line at the end about how the Magisterium feel apart a bit and became chaotic. It just doesn't make much sense that in a world where the Authority was defeated, how does an institution like the Magisterium still have so much power? I thought that one of the main purpose of the original trilogy was to bring about the end of such a oppressive regime. But here we are 10 years later with the same organization having even more power than ever before.
I like Lyra having a villain at her age. Oliver Bonneville is like Will's antithesis, and their future interactions are sure to be interesting. I'm not sure how I feel about Oliver, and I look forward to seeing him more in the third book. There are a lot of other characters previously introduced, Malcom, Alice, Hannah, Coram and so many more (it was a little hard to keep track of everyone) and seeing them all finally together and in each others' confidence was nice. Malcom's feelings towards Lyra are a little 'ew' and I sincerely hope nothing becomes of it. I was a little uncomfortable and I hope, hope Pullman does not make it a romantic relationship. Even though they are both adults, there is still too much of an age gap in my opinion. (the only person Lyra should be with is Will)
I'm interested in how the Roses relate to Dust and the previous events of Lyra's life. This book was an emotional rollercoaster and while it's definitely not perfect, I can't wait for the last one. HDM is not perfect, and there are parts/ elements I don't enjoy that much, but this story and world that Philip Pullman has crafted has become one of my favorites. I have only grown to love the characters and world and magic even more as I've gotten older. I have high expectations for the third installment, and I hope we at least get a title soon!
She knew he was right, but it wasn't right that he should speak to her accusingly, as if it was something to blame her for.
"I used to be young," was all she could find to say.
He made no response.
Okay Mr. Pullman, you've done it again. You've broken my heart again and there's nothing to fix it except for the third book in this trilogy. This is the continuation of Lyra's journey about 10 years after the events of His Dark Materials. I've heard that this is a story for people who read HDM as children but are now reading The Book of Dust as adults. And I couldn't agree more. It deals with adult themes and while Pullman still has the effortless way of drawing the reader into Lyra's world, you must tread carefully in this story. Even thought HDM is one of the darker, more theme heavy children's/ya books, TSC takes it to a new level. It explores psychology, mental health, trauma, politics, espionage and lies.
This trilogy seems to be somewhat mirroring HDM in terms of construction. It's not until the second installment of the series that the central plot really kicks in. While The Golden Compass and La Belle Sauvage are crucial to their respective trilogies, Pullman writes so that the second books are where the full stakes and plot is revealed. He also ends both installments on a large cliffhanger. I'm assuming that the third book will be even longer and more broad than TSC (if that's even possible). This series definitely isn't His Dark Materials. It doesn't contain the same elements of magic or destiny, or angels and gods. It's more about politics and world changing schemes and intellectual ideas. And it's much more rooted in the physical, tangible world. Just keep your mind open while reading this that this series is different from HDM. That being said I'm going to get into many Spoilers so stop reading if you don't want to be spoiled!
*SPOILERS*
The Lyra of this book is not the same Lyra we fell in love with in HDM. This Lyra is 20 years old and she has many issues. The trauma of her childhood seems to have finally caught up with her, and has left her as a depressed, anxious, stressed college student. Her constant state of melancholy and slight depression is such a strong contrast with her confident, energetic, optimism of her childhood. But it's relatable. I feel like most twenty year olds feel at least a little like Lyra does at the beginning of this story. Where does all our energy and hopefulness go when we're 10/11/12 years old, compared to when we're 20/21/22?
She has realized how unsure her future is, how utterly alone and traumatized she has been left. This book is an interesting look into the mind of a heroine years after the original events took place. It's an interesting look into what events of HDM she thinks of more often, and what events she seems to have tried to forget. Her separation from Pan and time spent in the Land of the Dead seem to have stuck with her well. So had her last few days with Will. Other events she seems to have tried to forget. The battle between the forces of 'God' and Lord Asriel, as well as times where she and Will would just travel through random worlds does not seem like memories she visits too often. Which I find interesting, especially how Lyra has seemed to give up on the fantastical and magical elements at the beginning.
Her changed relationship with Pan was heartbreaking. But Lyra had changed so much as a person, that a fractured relationship with her literal soul was bound to happen. She had basically turned into someone unrecognizable to Pan (which was none of her fault) but they both needed to figure themselves out in this story. Again, the cliffhanger leaves a lot to wonder, but I'm hoping for the best.
And Will... Lyra still has not gotten over Will. A part of me hopes, hopes that they will somehow find each other again and be together. I know the chances are almost nonexistent, but I also really loved Will as a character, and I want to know how and what he is doing. Even if they never see each other again, I want to know if he's alright. A small part of me hopes that there is something in that desert, that can lead Lyra back into Will's (our) world. I know HDM is about making the Republic of Heaven where you are, and living a good life because nothing else is guaranteed. Which is something Lyra has kind of forgotten, and I hope Pullman bring it back up again? The lines Lyra says about Will, "I think about him every day. Probably every hour. He's still the center of my life" just hurt so much.
I love some of the social issues, and how they they parallel the social issues of our world. It makes sense that issues would be at least vaguely similar, since they are parallel worlds. The fleeing of refugees out of the Middle East, governments trying to subtly pass laws that infringe upon freedoms, new thoughts, radical movements and shootings. All of these parallel current issues in our world.
I also liked Lyra's journey in this book. It was much more of a journey she takes alone. Even though she has many people to help her on her way towards the Middle East and Asia, it is a fundamentally solitary journey, and a great metaphor for your time as a young adult just trying to find your way around in the world. While in the original series, she is going North (and Northern lands will always have a soft spot in me) I really like the way she is journeying into the East this time.
I hope some of the themes and results of HDM finds its way into the third installment. The concept of the Republic of Heaven, free will and no divine authority would be so interesting to explore as a consequence, but for most of the book we get a depressed, confused and scared Lyra. Which is fine, horrible things happened to her, and it's understandable why she is like the way she is. I just feel like the big cosmic battle at the end of The Amber Spyglass and the changes that happened to the universe are not as consequential as they should have been.
My main complaint is: Why does the Magisterium still exist in Lyra's word? In TAS, there is a line at the end about how the Magisterium feel apart a bit and became chaotic. It just doesn't make much sense that in a world where the Authority was defeated, how does an institution like the Magisterium still have so much power? I thought that one of the main purpose of the original trilogy was to bring about the end of such a oppressive regime. But here we are 10 years later with the same organization having even more power than ever before.
I like Lyra having a villain at her age. Oliver Bonneville is like Will's antithesis, and their future interactions are sure to be interesting. I'm not sure how I feel about Oliver, and I look forward to seeing him more in the third book. There are a lot of other characters previously introduced, Malcom, Alice, Hannah, Coram and so many more (it was a little hard to keep track of everyone) and seeing them all finally together and in each others' confidence was nice. Malcom's feelings towards Lyra are a little 'ew' and I sincerely hope nothing becomes of it. I was a little uncomfortable and I hope, hope Pullman does not make it a romantic relationship. Even though they are both adults, there is still too much of an age gap in my opinion.
I'm interested in how the Roses relate to Dust and the previous events of Lyra's life. This book was an emotional rollercoaster and while it's definitely not perfect, I can't wait for the last one. HDM is not perfect, and there are parts/ elements I don't enjoy that much, but this story and world that Philip Pullman has crafted has become one of my favorites. I have only grown to love the characters and world and magic even more as I've gotten older. I have high expectations for the third installment, and I hope we at least get a title soon!
bookishwondergoth's review against another edition
adventurous
mysterious
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.5
I actually kinda loved this. The Book of Dust isn’t a patch on the original His Dark Materials trilogy, but this instalment still had bags of intrigue, magic and philosophy; it was definitely quite significantly better than book 1 in the trilogy, ‘La Belle Sauvage’.
It was really lovely to be back with Lyra and Pan again and to explore their relationship in a whole new way after certain events in ‘The Amber Spyglass’. I also really enjoyed how all the rationality and atheist leanings in the first trilogy were explored and deepened to order to take into account things like spirituality, imagination and faith.
The pacing for this book is very slow and at times a bit plodding, especially Malcolm Polstead’s chapters. I also thought it was a bit… hmmm… 🚩🚩🚩 what Pullman has decided to do with Malcolm and Lyra in terms of where their relationship is going. These are the things that brought my rating down.
I love both Lyra and Pan very much and I want nothing but the best for them. They both went through the wringer in this book, but it was so well done and felt necessary.
After avoiding reading this book for so long given how disappointed I was with ‘La Belle Sauvage’, I’m really happy I’ve read this now and can genuinely look forward to the release of the final book in this trilogy.
It was really lovely to be back with Lyra and Pan again and to explore their relationship in a whole new way after certain events in ‘The Amber Spyglass’. I also really enjoyed how all the rationality and atheist leanings in the first trilogy were explored and deepened to order to take into account things like spirituality, imagination and faith.
The pacing for this book is very slow and at times a bit plodding, especially Malcolm Polstead’s chapters. I also thought it was a bit… hmmm… 🚩🚩🚩 what Pullman has decided to do with Malcolm and Lyra in terms of where their relationship is going. These are the things that brought my rating down.
I love both Lyra and Pan very much and I want nothing but the best for them. They both went through the wringer in this book, but it was so well done and felt necessary.
After avoiding reading this book for so long given how disappointed I was with ‘La Belle Sauvage’, I’m really happy I’ve read this now and can genuinely look forward to the release of the final book in this trilogy.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Abandonment, Gun violence, and Religious bigotry
Moderate: Toxic friendship, Gaslighting, Sexual assault, Suicide, and Cursing
Minor: Classism and Torture
Additional content warning not listed:Spoiler
Potentially problematic relationship between a university professor and a student. The professor has known the student since they were a child, so there is also a potential grooming element.theverbalthing's review against another edition
3.0
CW: The Secret Commonwealth describes a suicide by gun, as well as an attempted gang rape. These scenes can be very triggering.
It took me a long time to get into The Secret Commonwealth, despite my excitement for it. I didn't expect such a massive time jump — 20 years after La Belle Sauvage and 10 years after The Amber Spyglass — which made it hard to grapple with how much the characters had changed in all that time. I also didn't expect this book to be quite so angsty, which might not even be the right word for it. I liked it, mostly, but I also have some issues with it.
The spoiler below deals with the CWs above, if you want or need more specifics.
Furthermore, the decision to write Malcolm as being in love with Lyra is incredibly weird and uncomfortable. If he were a new character in his early 30s falling for Lyra in her early 20s, that would be one thing — but 11 year-old Malcolm carried infant Lyra through the flood, which makes him falling for her when they're both adults feel really, really gross.
The suicide mentioned above is graphic, but brief, and occurs in the last 1/3 of the book.
It took me a long time to get into The Secret Commonwealth, despite my excitement for it. I didn't expect such a massive time jump — 20 years after La Belle Sauvage and 10 years after The Amber Spyglass — which made it hard to grapple with how much the characters had changed in all that time. I also didn't expect this book to be quite so angsty, which might not even be the right word for it. I liked it, mostly, but I also have some issues with it.
The spoiler below deals with the CWs above, if you want or need more specifics.
Spoiler
Unfortunately, Lyra's conflict with Pantalaimon and the fact that she has to fight her way free of an attempted gang rape makes me think that Pullman, like far too many other writers, believes the way to craft a Strong Female Protagonist is to force her to bear horrible violation and grief in order to come into her own, rather than allowing her to be complex without putting her through assault or tremendous loss.Furthermore, the decision to write Malcolm as being in love with Lyra is incredibly weird and uncomfortable. If he were a new character in his early 30s falling for Lyra in her early 20s, that would be one thing — but 11 year-old Malcolm carried infant Lyra through the flood, which makes him falling for her when they're both adults feel really, really gross.
The suicide mentioned above is graphic, but brief, and occurs in the last 1/3 of the book.
karineik's review against another edition
3.0
His Dark Materials was one of my favourite series when I was younger so I was obviously excited about the continuation of the story. The previous book left me disappointed, and I was hoping this would be better with Lyra as the main character. This book took me several months to finish, I kept picking it up and putting it back down again as it was just so boring. It didn't feel like there was a plot, but at the same time it felt like too many things were going on, and I didn't care about a single one of them. I was set on giving it a two, but I felt it did pick up towards the end so it did make me want to find out what happens in book 3.
rowanmay's review against another edition
2.0
This book sucked honestly
This was a really tedious read. The pacing was really off and it took me ages to want to finish it.
Malcolm grows into a really boring character who’s in love with lyra, for some reason. I wouldn’t mind this so much, if pullman didn’t remind us constantly that he’s tormented over this 11-year age gap and was attracted to her when he taught her as a teenager? And i’m supposed to like this guy? gross
I honestly didn’t mind that pan and lyra fell out, and found the new introduction of how people can separate from their demons genuinely really interesting. However, I felt we were told rather than shown that Lyra is now boring or cares too much about philosophy and has lost her imagination or whatever, but honestly as a grown up character she seems fine, if just a little flat? (like all characters in this book) I would have preferred it if she had genuinely grown into some undesirable traits and had something to reflect on rather than a ideological difference that she doesn’t even seem at all committed to. Let grown up lyra actually be a bit of a snob after becoming an oxford student and have to unlearn some of that - far more interesting imo!
There’s a really violent attempted rape in chapter 31 for no reason and without warning
This doesn’t feel like a natural follow up to the amber spyglass at all - beyond pining for Will, lyra has seemed to have moved on only 7 years later?
Pullman tries to nod at contemporary issues in really poor ways. Rose oil = oil? He has lyra witness really traumatic events in a refugee crisis in a way that is quite careless and then we just move on
In general, Pullman's attempt at “darker” themes is just to let what would be traumatic events happen to lyra over and over and for her to just move on... bolvangar was way more unsettling and that was supposedly a children’s book! He also just introduces new characters, themes and subplots almost in every chapter so that he can discuss some kind of contemporary or philosophical issue - but it’s so boring! I don’t care! It adds nothing!
I don’t care at all about oliver bonneville or his stupid beef with malcom that was seemingly resolved immediately
The book really suffers from all of its central characters (incl pan) being apart for half the book and just….experiencing stuff with no real interfacing
The book ends on a cliffhanger after 600 pages tying literally none of it’s multiple plots together
Pros:
Pullman does so consitently say fuck politicians, cops, theologians and philosophers and he’s right and should say it
Spoiler
This was a really tedious read. The pacing was really off and it took me ages to want to finish it.
Malcolm grows into a really boring character who’s in love with lyra, for some reason. I wouldn’t mind this so much, if pullman didn’t remind us constantly that he’s tormented over this 11-year age gap and was attracted to her when he taught her as a teenager? And i’m supposed to like this guy? gross
I honestly didn’t mind that pan and lyra fell out, and found the new introduction of how people can separate from their demons genuinely really interesting. However, I felt we were told rather than shown that Lyra is now boring or cares too much about philosophy and has lost her imagination or whatever, but honestly as a grown up character she seems fine, if just a little flat? (like all characters in this book) I would have preferred it if she had genuinely grown into some undesirable traits and had something to reflect on rather than a ideological difference that she doesn’t even seem at all committed to. Let grown up lyra actually be a bit of a snob after becoming an oxford student and have to unlearn some of that - far more interesting imo!
There’s a really violent attempted rape in chapter 31 for no reason and without warning
This doesn’t feel like a natural follow up to the amber spyglass at all - beyond pining for Will, lyra has seemed to have moved on only 7 years later?
Pullman tries to nod at contemporary issues in really poor ways. Rose oil = oil? He has lyra witness really traumatic events in a refugee crisis in a way that is quite careless and then we just move on
In general, Pullman's attempt at “darker” themes is just to let what would be traumatic events happen to lyra over and over and for her to just move on... bolvangar was way more unsettling and that was supposedly a children’s book! He also just introduces new characters, themes and subplots almost in every chapter so that he can discuss some kind of contemporary or philosophical issue - but it’s so boring! I don’t care! It adds nothing!
I don’t care at all about oliver bonneville or his stupid beef with malcom that was seemingly resolved immediately
The book really suffers from all of its central characters (incl pan) being apart for half the book and just….experiencing stuff with no real interfacing
The book ends on a cliffhanger after 600 pages tying literally none of it’s multiple plots together
Pros:
Pullman does so consitently say fuck politicians, cops, theologians and philosophers and he’s right and should say it
bhav's review against another edition
2.0
I read this book, but did I read this book? I felt myself skimming so very much, and losing track of how many characters there were (so many characters and no Will the moment she sees Will in the shadowy dream I got so excited, but alas, he was not to return :(). It feels so long and winding and not in a good way. Plus, almost all of this book being Lyra away from Pan made this book genuinely difficult to read. I also agree with the other reviews about Lyra (despite being 20) being romantically paired with Malcom felt very strange.
There were certainly parts I enjoyed of this book, more insight into deamons and the connection between daemons and humans and what that means in Lyra's world, like Lyra on the ferry with everyone staring at her or judging her for having a daemon, in our world I suppose a good paralell to that would loss of self/neurodivergency. But, something that confused me about this is at times people would be shocked by Lyra not being connected to a daemon, and at other times she could pretend to be a witch (who in this world don't have daemons) to prevent others from judging her. Not sure if I'm missing something, but why couldn't she pretend she was a witch the whole time? Furthermore, the moments I enjoyed were felt few and far between. For the Book of Dust series, I don't really feel like I'm getting any more about what dust is, which is something I've struggled to understand completely since the first book of His Dark Materials. And apart from small moments, this series doesn't neccesarily feel deeper than the first trilogy despite being much longer.
I'm hoping this book just suffers from second book syndrome honestly, because as a bridge for the trilogy it doesn't really work for me, but I'll still have a little hope for the third book.
There were certainly parts I enjoyed of this book, more insight into deamons and the connection between daemons and humans and what that means in Lyra's world, like Lyra on the ferry with everyone staring at her or judging her for having a daemon, in our world I suppose a good paralell to that would loss of self/neurodivergency. But, something that confused me about this is at times people would be shocked by Lyra not being connected to a daemon, and at other times she could pretend to be a witch (who in this world don't have daemons) to prevent others from judging her. Not sure if I'm missing something, but why couldn't she pretend she was a witch the whole time? Furthermore, the moments I enjoyed were felt few and far between. For the Book of Dust series, I don't really feel like I'm getting any more about what dust is, which is something I've struggled to understand completely since the first book of His Dark Materials. And apart from small moments, this series doesn't neccesarily feel deeper than the first trilogy despite being much longer.
I'm hoping this book just suffers from second book syndrome honestly, because as a bridge for the trilogy it doesn't really work for me, but I'll still have a little hope for the third book.
cats_and_bookdragons's review against another edition
dark
mysterious
reflective
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
3.5
This wasn't as well written as His Dark Materials and it took me a few attempts to really get into it. Once I started reading it properly, I was hooked. The relationship between Pan and Lyra had me in tears at one stage because of how dreadfully strained it is compared to their love in the original trilogy. I also thoroughly enjoyed the behind-the-scenes politics. There are still a lot of questions that need to be answered which hopefully will happen in the final book. I give it three stars because of the lacklustre writing and the fact that I feel there needs to be a bit more resolution in some aspects in order for the third book to really get down to the crux of Lyra's and Pan's adventures.