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jhbandcats's review against another edition
challenging
hopeful
informative
inspiring
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
I didn’t know what to expect but I’m sure that if I had, this book would have exceeded my expectations. It’s a funny premise: Athene (Athena) gathers 300 adults from all time periods of Western Civilization and uses them as teachers in her experiment of establishing Plato’s Just City. There are some real people among the characters, most notably Sokrates (Socrates). Apollo wants to learn more about humans and becomes a mortal so he can participate.
The 10,080 children who are being taught were all bought as slaves, told their previous lives should be considered dreams, and never to think of refer to them again. This seems all right with most, especially those whose experiences as slaves are worth forgetting, but there are some who don’t mold themselves to the plan.
Many, many philosophical conversations ensue. The story is told from three perspectives, that of Apollo as mortal, a teacher, and a student. Parts are very funny, as when Apollo’s identity is occasionally guessed and when Sokrates tries to talk to the robots.
There is much to think about here of free will, power, slavery and its equivalents, the nature of love, and being forced to have sex and breed. I was surprised st how much I loved this book.
There was an early scene where there was great conflict between two people, and it never sat well with me. The one who took the other’s liberty never realized he’d done something wrong. If this was the Just City, there should have been some justice for the wounded party.
The 10,080 children who are being taught were all bought as slaves, told their previous lives should be considered dreams, and never to think of refer to them again. This seems all right with most, especially those whose experiences as slaves are worth forgetting, but there are some who don’t mold themselves to the plan.
Many, many philosophical conversations ensue. The story is told from three perspectives, that of Apollo as mortal, a teacher, and a student. Parts are very funny, as when Apollo’s identity is occasionally guessed and when Sokrates tries to talk to the robots.
There is much to think about here of free will, power, slavery and its equivalents, the nature of love, and being forced to have sex and breed. I was surprised st how much I loved this book.
There was an early scene where there was great conflict between two people, and it never sat well with me. The one who took the other’s liberty never realized he’d done something wrong. If this was the Just City, there should have been some justice for the wounded party.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Child abuse, Confinement, Misogyny, Rape, Slavery, Forced institutionalization, Blood, Pregnancy, Gaslighting, and Abandonment
vemilla's review against another edition
challenging
informative
inspiring
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
3.25
Content Warnings
Graphic: Rape, Sexual assault, and Slavery
pferdina's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
emotional
informative
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
5.0
Really enjoyed this and looking forward to reading the next volume in the series.
Athena and Apollo set up an isolated city on an island with a volcano that will destroy it in the future as an experiment to test Plato’s Republic. Apollo takes mortal form to be part of the experiment and learn about volition and equal significance. I thoroughly loved the idea of the city as a way for people to become their best selves, but of course Plato did not consider human nature and the complexity of what he was asking these people to do. The sentient workers were an additional wonderful bit, as Sokrates shows they have souls.
Athena and Apollo set up an isolated city on an island with a volcano that will destroy it in the future as an experiment to test Plato’s Republic. Apollo takes mortal form to be part of the experiment and learn about volition and equal significance. I thoroughly loved the idea of the city as a way for people to become their best selves, but of course Plato did not consider human nature and the complexity of what he was asking these people to do. The sentient workers were an additional wonderful bit, as Sokrates shows they have souls.
Content Warnings
Minor: Child death, Rape, Sexism, Sexual assault, Sexual content, Slavery, and Pregnancy
thuguely's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.5
Content Warnings
Graphic: Rape, Sexual assault, Sexual violence, and Slavery
madhu42's review against another edition
reflective
fast-paced
4.0
A fascinating thought experiment into the potential strengths and downfalls of setting up Plato's Republic in real life, drawing upon the expertise of iconic figures (and gods) across history - past, present, and future. As a former philosophy student, I was positively surprised by how authentic and fun the socratic dialogues felt, I honestly felt like I was reading Plato at times. The characters were a little flat, though I loved Sokrates himself, but this is because the book is about 80% dialogue and often relies on characters to function as argumentative pawns. It's a very fast read but the setup to the climax/final debate is well paced, thought-provoking, and satisfyingly chaotic.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Rape and Pregnancy
Moderate: Slavery
sarapocher98's review against another edition
adventurous
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Rape and Slavery
recorderkfk's review against another edition
challenging
emotional
mysterious
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
Fascinating concept, mixed execution.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Mental illness, Rape, Sexual assault, and Sexual content
Moderate: Slavery, Stalking, and Pregnancy
Minor: Grief
liorallen's review against another edition
challenging
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
3.0
More than anything, this feels like Plato fan fiction. I got there overwhelming feeling that I was reading a lot of world building, which was interesting, but because the characters are poorly developed and the plot is thin it fell flat for me. Several significant incidents (see content warnings) happened with no character being held accountable, which was disappointing. Also, because of the concept (a group of time traveling philosophers trying to create Plato’s Republic), the text is cisheteronormative to the extreme.
Disappointed is the best word to describe my feelings during and after reading this book. Which is sad, because I’ve met and had lovely conversations with Jo in the past. She’s a delight, and I had hoped for better.
Disappointed is the best word to describe my feelings during and after reading this book. Which is sad, because I’ve met and had lovely conversations with Jo in the past. She’s a delight, and I had hoped for better.
Content Warnings
Moderate: Rape, Sexual assault, Sexual content, and Slavery
Contains multiple incidents of rape and/or sexual coercion, with the offenders facing zero consequences.funktious's review against another edition
challenging
informative
inspiring
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.5
This is the sort of book that makes it very clear I had a secondary modern education, even if they don’t call it that anymore! Anything I’ve picked up about classical education has been from my own reading and even that was sadly lacking when it comes to actual philosophy. But Jo Walton is excellent at introducing ideas in a really readable way, with engaging and sympathetic characters. I love Simmea and I just want good things for her! I’ll definitely be picking up The Philosopher Kings as the ending was abrupt and I want to know where the experiment goes.
Spoiler re sexual violence
there are several instances of rape in this book but I found that important in the context of the experiment - if you take a bunch of philosophers to an island where they’re committed to creating a society in which men and women will be treated equally, will there still be rape? If you raise children from the age of 10 on that island and tell them they’re all equal, will there still be rape and will the boys claim ownership of the girls? Does philosophy outweigh patriarchy? Walton doesn’t seem to think so and I’m inclined to agree.
Spoiler re sexual violence
Content Warnings
Moderate: Rape and Slavery
ellanarose's review against another edition
challenging
dark
informative
inspiring
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
4.25
Content Warnings
Graphic: Child death, Rape, Sexual assault, Sexual content, Sexual violence, Slavery, Medical content, and Pregnancy
Minor: Ableism