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myclutteredbookshelf's review against another edition
Had I known about Winterson's opposition to providing gender affirming care for trans youths beforehand, I wouldn't have bothered reading this novel. As such, I am going to refrain from giving it a rating and review.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Deadnaming, Homophobia, Misogyny, Rape, Sexual assault, Transphobia, and Outing
Minor: Child death, Death, and Miscarriage
easefcik's review against another edition
challenging
dark
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Child death, Deadnaming, Death, Homophobia, Miscarriage, Sexual assault, Suicidal thoughts, Transphobia, and Grief
riledupryepie's review against another edition
funny
inspiring
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.5
Missing the final 0.5 only because it simply cannot do everything - Winterson really tries though! This book is the definition of layered, and any Mary Shelley fan will enjoy.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Sexism, Sexual content, Toxic relationship, Transphobia, and Medical content
Moderate: Body horror, Miscarriage, Religious bigotry, and Pregnancy
Minor: Rape and Sexual violence
boyinajar's review against another edition
challenging
dark
reflective
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
3.5
echoing some previeious concerns, it did feel a little off color to a transmasc reader of theis novel but the surrealist experience of finishing the book was evocative enough that I give it some points
Content Warnings
Graphic: Misogyny, Rape, and Transphobia
Moderate: Body horror, Child death, Gore, Mental illness, Miscarriage, Misogyny, Physical abuse, Sexism, Toxic relationship, Transphobia, Religious bigotry, Pregnancy, and Alcohol
hannahbailey's review against another edition
challenging
dark
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.5
This is an interesting exploration of what our future could look like: bionic humans, AI sex robots and eternal life (the brain as data). I loved how Winterson connects these ideas to Mary Shelley's ideas of human life and reanimation after death. This connection between the past and present shows how prevalent this idea of eternal life and making the impossible possible has always been. Shelley's perspective was engaging to read and reminded me how much I love her novel Frankenstein (perhaps more praise should be given to Shelley here than Winterson lol). The modern POV follows a non-binary trans person (Ry) and their relationship with Victor Stein, a scientist (of sorts) trying to bring his mate's beheaded head back to life. This was (perhaps purposefully) less engaging, as Ry often lacks agency amongst the people around them who shove their opinions of gender and identity down their throat.
I've read several reviews of this novel in which people describe Winterson as transphobic. In this novel specifically, I don't see the ignorant views of the characters as a reflection of her own views. However, there is very crude language used throughout which focuses on the anatomy of the characters. I don't feel that this narrative focus on bodily features has aged well (I know this book is only 3 years old but even then) in response to present ideas of gender, sex and identity. The characters around Ry are consistently transphobic, denying their identity, misgendering them and deadnaming them. This is a book to read if you're interested in the future of AI and human relationships, but not if you're looking for a story with good trans rep. Had this book not featured Frankenstein but a different cautionary tale, such as Brave New World, I probably would've hated it.
Alternative reads with trans rep/trans authors:
https://bookriot.com/best-trans-fantasy-books/
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/126482.Novels_by_Trans_Authors_with_Trans_Protagonists
Jeanette Winterson//transphobia:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-lgbt-books/no-rush-to-change-gender-uk-writer-joins-trans-debate-idUSKCN1T028R
Non-exhaustive list of TW: sexual assault, transphobia, homophobia, child death, miscarriage, misogyny, body horror/gore
I've read several reviews of this novel in which people describe Winterson as transphobic. In this novel specifically, I don't see the ignorant views of the characters as a reflection of her own views. However, there is very crude language used throughout which focuses on the anatomy of the characters. I don't feel that this narrative focus on bodily features has aged well (I know this book is only 3 years old but even then) in response to present ideas of gender, sex and identity. The characters around Ry are consistently transphobic, denying their identity, misgendering them and deadnaming them. This is a book to read if you're interested in the future of AI and human relationships, but not if you're looking for a story with good trans rep. Had this book not featured Frankenstein but a different cautionary tale, such as Brave New World, I probably would've hated it.
Alternative reads with trans rep/trans authors:
https://bookriot.com/best-trans-fantasy-books/
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/126482.Novels_by_Trans_Authors_with_Trans_Protagonists
Jeanette Winterson//transphobia:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-lgbt-books/no-rush-to-change-gender-uk-writer-joins-trans-debate-idUSKCN1T028R
Non-exhaustive list of TW: sexual assault, transphobia, homophobia, child death, miscarriage, misogyny, body horror/gore
Content Warnings
Graphic: Body shaming, Child death, Death, Gore, Misogyny, Sexual assault, Transphobia, and Medical content
Moderate: Miscarriage
radfordmanor's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
emotional
mysterious
reflective
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Alcoholism, Body horror, Death, Sexism, Sexual violence, Toxic relationship, Transphobia, Grief, Medical trauma, and Alcohol
Moderate: Child death, Drug abuse, Emotional abuse, Homophobia, Miscarriage, Misogyny, Physical abuse, Rape, Sexual content, Sexual violence, Suicidal thoughts, Toxic relationship, Violence, Death of parent, Lesbophobia, Toxic friendship, and Sexual harassment
anth's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
Almost 4 stars because this book really fascinated me and made me think a lot, because I found Ry and Victor two interesting and intense characters and I felt very invested in them and their relationship.
However, I'm not sure I completely get where the story went. I think I do, but the doubt leaves me hanging. Maybe that's the point. I don't know what was the point, but maybe it was leaving me here to think about what the point was.
However, I'm not sure I completely get where the story went. I think I do, but the doubt leaves me hanging. Maybe that's the point. I don't know what was the point, but maybe it was leaving me here to think about what the point was.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Deadnaming and Transphobia
Moderate: Child death, Miscarriage, and Sexual assault
Minor: Misogyny
mryshells's review against another edition
challenging
dark
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
1.0
Huge TW for transphobia towards characters in the book but also in the clearly problematic views the author must hold that come through in the writing.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Deadnaming, Hate crime, Homophobia, Physical abuse, Rape, Sexual assault, Sexual content, Sexual violence, Transphobia, Violence, Medical content, Grief, Medical trauma, and Sexual harassment
Moderate: Ableism, Body horror, Child death, Cursing, Death, Gore, Infidelity, Miscarriage, Misogyny, Sexism, Antisemitism, Religious bigotry, Schizophrenia/Psychosis , Pregnancy, Lesbophobia, Outing, and Alcohol
tenten's review against another edition
challenging
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? N/A
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
2.25
that was...okay? i guess?
the historical Mary Shelley parts were my favorite, which was a surprise because i don't normally like historical fiction. this book is clearly well-researched (except for the transgender character lol), and i think the fact that the historical characters were real people benefitted Winterson—that is to say, they actually had distinctive personalities and their conversations felt more <i>real</i> than anyone in the modern day, even though they got int a lot of philosophical debates too.
the only modern character that didn't feel one-dimensional to me was Victor, because he was very strange and passionate and had strong convictions in a way that felt more fleshed out than everyone else. something about the intensity of Claire's religious fervor rubbed me the wrong way, especially because she was the only black one (as an aside, i hate when (white) writers only point out the race of non-white characters. i never read a character description that's like "Claire was tall, white, beautiful..." like, i get it, whiteness is your default but sheesh.)
i wasn't as bothered by Ron's misogyny as other readers because i understood that as being the point, and Polly D didn't feel relevant for most of the book (neither did Claire, honestly.)
i'm all for stream-of-consciousness and a plot that isn't so clear cut but this felt like Winterson trying to work through her thoughts about AI and transhumanism and faith and science, and the characters are kinda just there as mouthpieces. I watched a documentary about Toni Morrison last year where she talks about how she writes to answer/explore questions and ideas, which clearly Winterson is doing here, but with Morrison, her characters and stories are at least fully fleshed out, even when there isn't a very complex plot.
i noticed that a lot of queer readers took issue with Ry's characterization. i understood the transphobia as being a reflection of the other characters's ignorance, but Ry's passivity about it annoyed me. i don't know if it was Winterson's intention for Ry to be non-binary rather than specifically a trans man, but i think that would've worked better, but my perception is colored by the fact that i'm non-binary. this isn't to say that non-binary people are comfortable being misgendered and deadnamed, but i think some of Ry's ideals about gender, and their own gender identity, aligned lore with non-binaryness.
this is a spoiler but:in the last quarter-ish of the book, Ry is assaulted in a bar bathroom by a transphobic drunk dude. this took me out of the story because it felt so out of place—while yes, Ry had previously been misgendered, deadnamed, and fetishized throughout the story, something about this seemed...too far. it also had no bearing on the "plot" and felt like it was put in as a "damn, trans people be facing VIOLENCE" moment. but the misgendering, deadnaming, etc already showed us that so!?
overall, i thought this was just...ok, and probs wouldn't read it again. i checked this out from the library and was torn between this and Daisy Jones & the Six, and i wish i had checked that out instead 😭 i don't think i liked Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit that much either, so i think that Winterson and i just might not mesh!?
the historical Mary Shelley parts were my favorite, which was a surprise because i don't normally like historical fiction. this book is clearly well-researched (except for the transgender character lol), and i think the fact that the historical characters were real people benefitted Winterson—that is to say, they actually had distinctive personalities and their conversations felt more <i>real</i> than anyone in the modern day, even though they got int a lot of philosophical debates too.
the only modern character that didn't feel one-dimensional to me was Victor, because he was very strange and passionate and had strong convictions in a way that felt more fleshed out than everyone else. something about the intensity of Claire's religious fervor rubbed me the wrong way, especially because she was the only black one (as an aside, i hate when (white) writers only point out the race of non-white characters. i never read a character description that's like "Claire was tall, white, beautiful..." like, i get it, whiteness is your default but sheesh.)
i wasn't as bothered by Ron's misogyny as other readers because i understood that as being the point, and Polly D didn't feel relevant for most of the book (neither did Claire, honestly.)
i'm all for stream-of-consciousness and a plot that isn't so clear cut but this felt like Winterson trying to work through her thoughts about AI and transhumanism and faith and science, and the characters are kinda just there as mouthpieces. I watched a documentary about Toni Morrison last year where she talks about how she writes to answer/explore questions and ideas, which clearly Winterson is doing here, but with Morrison, her characters and stories are at least fully fleshed out, even when there isn't a very complex plot.
i noticed that a lot of queer readers took issue with Ry's characterization. i understood the transphobia as being a reflection of the other characters's ignorance, but Ry's passivity about it annoyed me. i don't know if it was Winterson's intention for Ry to be non-binary rather than specifically a trans man, but i think that would've worked better, but my perception is colored by the fact that i'm non-binary. this isn't to say that non-binary people are comfortable being misgendered and deadnamed, but i think some of Ry's ideals about gender, and their own gender identity, aligned lore with non-binaryness.
this is a spoiler but:
overall, i thought this was just...ok, and probs wouldn't read it again. i checked this out from the library and was torn between this and Daisy Jones & the Six, and i wish i had checked that out instead 😭 i don't think i liked Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit that much either, so i think that Winterson and i just might not mesh!?
Content Warnings
Graphic: Deadnaming, Sexual content, and Transphobia
Moderate: Body horror, Misogyny, and Sexism
Minor: Confinement, Fatphobia, Miscarriage, Rape, Sexual assault, Forced institutionalization, and Grief
angel_kiiss's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
informative
mysterious
reflective
tense
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
2.75
I’ve never read any other book by Winterson, but - based off this book - I’d say she’s more a philosopher or robotic sociologist than she is a storyteller.
There’s a stark difference between the stories she’s comfortable telling and the story she obviously is leaving her comfort zone to explore. Ry Shelley is an incredibly complex character who Winterson is ill-equipped to handle and does horrifically wrong at almost any given opportunity (that’s where the major content warnings come in).
The gender exploration of a person who lives outside the binary while simultaneously finding comfort in an identity on the binary is compelling and relevant and real, but Winterson obviously hasn’t met anyone who actually lives like this otherwise she’d be aware of what not to do when writing a trans character.
It’s disappointing, because the story is actually beautifully written but is horrifically marred by the events that surround the trans character. Winterson’s stances on many political debates are also written in the most clunky way imaginable: “You must be one of those #MeToo women.” As if it were necessary to not only show the reader but tell us every characters politics.
I may also claim that the prose are very nice, but it needs to be acknowledged that the entire book looks like a first draft. Dialogue is not in quotations and characters with accents have their accents written out only for the reader to stumble over the words. You get used to it more as you read but it’s weirdly not used as a narrative device since it’s used throughout in both past and present storylines.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Deadnaming, Hate crime, Rape, Sexual assault, Transphobia, and Outing
Moderate: Death, Miscarriage, and Medical content