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hduc's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
hopeful
informative
inspiring
reflective
medium-paced
5.0
This book deals with monstrous people. Of course there will be disturbing stories. But fear not, take one or two pages at a time. You would come out of this book a heart lighter.
Content Warnings
Minor: Addiction, Adult/minor relationship, Alcoholism, Child abuse, Cursing, Domestic abuse, Drug abuse, Genocide, Hate crime, Misogyny, Pedophilia, Physical abuse, Racism, Self harm, Sexism, Sexual violence, Suicide, Toxic relationship, Violence, Grief, and War
mirandaleighhhh's review against another edition
medium-paced
1.5
Upon discovering this I was really intrigued - the question of ethics and morality in separating the art from the artist is one I spend a lot of time thinking about. However- and people have gone more in depth with their review than I have the energy for after spending 10 hours listening to the author ponder this- this is unorganized and messy and upon reflection, this being a memoir is confusing and ultimately weakens a lot of the point. Because it’s trying to answer one overarching question, it dangerously compares “monsters” who an*lly r*pe 10 year olds to alcoholics? or women who “abandon” their children? (give them up for adoption or who work?)
It’s not that nothing ever made sense- she had a lot of takes that I agreed with - but honestly and truly this ended up reading like a woman who still has a lot of guilt and who has healing to do over her own life's actions. There is a lot of projection even and most especially when she is explicitly trying not to. There’s a lot of white woman guilt too it seems.
Most of all I hated her emphasis on peoples bad deeds creating a “stain” on their past and future actions…and there was a fucked up sentence regarding Michael Jackson when she first presented this concept…but anyway, the whole stain thing made her comparisons even more wild. Sylvia Plath’s suicide (her stain) and Woody Allen’s abuse of woman (his stain) are two completely different things.
And then she ends everything with mentioning how there are “monsters” in our lives that we still love. Like yes but…arent we talking about artists we don’t personally know and never will? So why are you ending it with “its all love yall” ???
I think this is a nuanced topic with lots to be said, and she says some of it, but her zooming in and out and in and out without thoughtful connection irritated me. She also doesn’t really discuss the question of platforming or financially supporting (ie buying merchandise or making the person money) a “monster” who is very much alive, which I think is an important piece of this whole fucking thing!
I cannot recommend this, especially the audio, and I can see how this would trigger a lot of people.
It’s not that nothing ever made sense- she had a lot of takes that I agreed with - but honestly and truly this ended up reading like a woman who still has a lot of guilt and who has healing to do over her own life's actions. There is a lot of projection even and most especially when she is explicitly trying not to. There’s a lot of white woman guilt too it seems.
Most of all I hated her emphasis on peoples bad deeds creating a “stain” on their past and future actions…and there was a fucked up sentence regarding Michael Jackson when she first presented this concept…but anyway, the whole stain thing made her comparisons even more wild. Sylvia Plath’s suicide (her stain) and Woody Allen’s abuse of woman (his stain) are two completely different things.
And then she ends everything with mentioning how there are “monsters” in our lives that we still love. Like yes but…arent we talking about artists we don’t personally know and never will? So why are you ending it with “its all love yall” ???
I think this is a nuanced topic with lots to be said, and she says some of it, but her zooming in and out and in and out without thoughtful connection irritated me. She also doesn’t really discuss the question of platforming or financially supporting (ie buying merchandise or making the person money) a “monster” who is very much alive, which I think is an important piece of this whole fucking thing!
I cannot recommend this, especially the audio, and I can see how this would trigger a lot of people.
Content Warnings
Moderate: Addiction, Alcoholism, Child abuse, Rape, and Abandonment
dubtronius15's review against another edition
challenging
emotional
hopeful
reflective
medium-paced
3.75
Content Warnings
Moderate: Addiction, Alcoholism, Child abuse, Racism, and Rape
chelseadoherty's review against another edition
challenging
informative
reflective
medium-paced
4.0
Content Warnings
Minor: Addiction, Adult/minor relationship, Alcoholism, Child abuse, Domestic abuse, Drug abuse, Incest, Mental illness, Misogyny, Pedophilia, Racism, Self harm, Sexual assault, Suicide, Antisemitism, Mass/school shootings, Religious bigotry, Abortion, Abandonment, and Pandemic/Epidemic
rustproofbottom's review against another edition
challenging
emotional
informative
reflective
fast-paced
4.75
wow. so much to unpack in this book. I will absolutely be returning to this one again and again. it's that important and rich in thought and reflection.
at the top is a helluva swing at examining what we should do about the relationship between art we love (in all form and genre) & artist & our consumption of it in context of artists (overwhelmingly mostly men) that end up doing horrible things are could righteously be called gigantic pieces of sh+t... they are, monsters.
This is a topic that I've talked with friends about and never landing anywhere near anything that resembled a satisfying answer.
I feel like this could be 10,000 page book easily. Because this book is so much more than a take down of these people or a simple guide to rationalization. It's an open invitation to consider how your consumption of art can be a mirror into who you are. Not as a "we" or "us" that resents a broader group, culture, or society. But as individuals.
you are taken through a series of analyses and reflections that invite you to reflect on the intersection of the art that is being consumed, the artist's biography AND your own biography, not the idealic, sanitized version, the real, raw, warts and all version. The whole story - stains and all.
you're also invited to think broadly about the role of societal norms & expectations, pressures of late-stage capitalistic systems, and morals and virtues that are constantly evolving. How do they contribute to your own definition of self? How does art help inform that definition? How are your own beliefs & behaviors influenced by, caused by, supported by, identified with all of those?
Part philosophy. Part critical analysis. Part history lesson.
I love it because I was left with a ton of things to think about within myself. There's also not a prescriptive answer. There's not an empirical rubric to give a pass/fail too.
It is not a purity test. It's not transactional. It's not simple. It's relational, subjective, and evolving.
It's messy and complicated and terrible and beautiful.
Just like the human experience.
at the top is a helluva swing at examining what we should do about the relationship between art we love (in all form and genre) & artist & our consumption of it in context of artists (overwhelmingly mostly men) that end up doing horrible things are could righteously be called gigantic pieces of sh+t... they are, monsters.
This is a topic that I've talked with friends about and never landing anywhere near anything that resembled a satisfying answer.
I feel like this could be 10,000 page book easily. Because this book is so much more than a take down of these people or a simple guide to rationalization. It's an open invitation to consider how your consumption of art can be a mirror into who you are. Not as a "we" or "us" that resents a broader group, culture, or society. But as individuals.
you are taken through a series of analyses and reflections that invite you to reflect on the intersection of the art that is being consumed, the artist's biography AND your own biography, not the idealic, sanitized version, the real, raw, warts and all version. The whole story - stains and all.
you're also invited to think broadly about the role of societal norms & expectations, pressures of late-stage capitalistic systems, and morals and virtues that are constantly evolving. How do they contribute to your own definition of self? How does art help inform that definition? How are your own beliefs & behaviors influenced by, caused by, supported by, identified with all of those?
Part philosophy. Part critical analysis. Part history lesson.
I love it because I was left with a ton of things to think about within myself. There's also not a prescriptive answer. There's not an empirical rubric to give a pass/fail too.
It is not a purity test. It's not transactional. It's not simple. It's relational, subjective, and evolving.
It's messy and complicated and terrible and beautiful.
Just like the human experience.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Adult/minor relationship, Domestic abuse, Misogyny, Physical abuse, and Rape
Moderate: Addiction, Alcoholism, Antisemitism, and Sexual harassment
This book examines dark, horrible behavior by people who caused a lot of harm to others sometimes with extreme violence. It is not presented in a way that is gratuitous or dramatized or dwell on them. It states supported facts plainly - which can be difficult to hear / read but is critical to the understanding the plain context of the intent of the book.larajgriff1's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
reflective
slow-paced
3.0
Unfortunately my expectations and hopes for this book were vastly different than what I experienced. I wanted a more broad view of how "monstrous" artists affect their fandom and what the group as a whole or individually moves forward. This book is much more personal to the writer and more of a memoir of her life and how she relates to different artists than the effect of their actions on the world.
However, I cannot fault the author for the book not being what I hoped. It is written very well and does make some good points about how these moments and artists affect us. Though in the middle of the book she seems to be "existential crisis-ing" in circles and it doesn't feel like there is momentum again until the last few chapters.
However, I cannot fault the author for the book not being what I hoped. It is written very well and does make some good points about how these moments and artists affect us. Though in the middle of the book she seems to be "existential crisis-ing" in circles and it doesn't feel like there is momentum again until the last few chapters.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Addiction, Adult/minor relationship, Alcoholism, Child abuse, Death, Domestic abuse, Drug abuse, Emotional abuse, Misogyny, Pedophilia, Physical abuse, Racism, Rape, Sexism, Sexual assault, Sexual content, Sexual violence, Suicide, Toxic relationship, Transphobia, Violence, Antisemitism, Religious bigotry, Abortion, Death of parent, Pregnancy, Abandonment, Alcohol, and Sexual harassment
this is a book about people who do terrible things. It is hard to avoid anything, but I did skip a full chapter because I was so uncomfortable with the crimes of an artist.kaiolenatac's review against another edition
informative
reflective
medium-paced
4.0
I overall enjoyed this memoir/narrative essay. Her conversations on Nobokov, Miles Davis, Woody Allen, and Rosemary's Baby particularly impressed me, sharing her anecdotes of being a fan or even just an enjoyer of these artists, etc., and coping with their biographies being "monstrous." Sparked thoughts and reflection on my own experiences with the media I interact with and love.
However, I did not think the two main discussions (being about consuming monstrous media vs. being a creator and avoiding monstrosity) were very cohesive and often became disinterested or unfocused because of said incoherence.
I see myself referencing her reflections in future conversations and papers of mine and am generally pleased with the book.
However, I did not think the two main discussions (being about consuming monstrous media vs. being a creator and avoiding monstrosity) were very cohesive and often became disinterested or unfocused because of said incoherence.
I see myself referencing her reflections in future conversations and papers of mine and am generally pleased with the book.
Content Warnings
Moderate: Sexual harassment
Minor: Addiction
probablyshannon's review against another edition
challenging
dark
informative
reflective
medium-paced
4.0
Content Warnings
Minor: Addiction, Adult/minor relationship, Alcoholism, Chronic illness, Drug abuse, Drug use, Gun violence, Infidelity, Mental illness, Sexism, Sexual assault, Death of parent, Abandonment, and Alcohol
serendipitysbooks's review against another edition
challenging
informative
reflective
medium-paced
3.0
In Monsters:A Fan’s Dilemma the author attempts to interrogate how fans should/could/might react to art produced by monstrous men. I have very mixed feelings about this book. The topic is certainly a timely one and the fact that the author didn’t reach a firm conclusion did not bother me at all. I’d much rather read information and the musings of others and reach my own conclusion than be told that there is only one correct response and that I must follow it. One of the main problems for me came in the second half of the book when the author shifted her focus from monstrous men (not a term I’m personally fond of; men who have done monstrous things is more nuanced and accurate, certainly less inflammatory) and starts looking at women. The crimes of the male artists included paedophilia; the crimes of the women she considered involved prioritising their art over motherhood and she explored her own feelings of mother guilt. Mothers who do not devote the entirety of their lives (or even their children’s childhoods) to their children are not monsters, although those who expect them to do so and judge them if they dare do something for themself might possibly be. I wish I’d DNF’d at this point. Things went meandering and issues got more than a little muddied in the second half, although the book did finish on a strong note. Overall the author raised some good points to consider, but for my money the worthwhile content (and my interest) ran to an essay or two rather than an entire book.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Addiction, Misogyny, Pedophilia, Rape, and Violence
popsicleplease's review against another edition
challenging
emotional
informative
reflective
slow-paced
5.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Child abuse, Misogyny, Sexual assault, and Sexual violence
Moderate: Addiction and Alcoholism